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To: Timber Rattler

Putin made a catastrophicw mistake waging complete war on Ukraine. Just prior to his offensivive, Russian units without opposition entered without opposition the contested regions and it was apparent that Ukraine was about to concede these regions to Russia. When Putin invaded the rest of eastern Ukraine and tried to seize the capital Kiev, all out war which was unnecessary, began as a matter of Ukrainian survival.

With this absurd decision Putin negated whatever progress Russia made extracting itslf from the soul killing 90 years of communism. He has created immense strategic problems for Russia. China now knows that Russia cannot defend conventionally its rich underpopulated Asian Pacific territories or Siberia. NATO also knows that the Russian army, once feared and respected, is not a conventional offensive threat.

Now with energy supplies severely compromised and the EU poisoned on the tonics of green lunacy, Europe faces cold, dark, economically depressed times.

Putin and to some extent the American response has made the world a much poorer and dangerous place. Talk of “limited nuclear war” is now a serious concern among rational people.


6 posted on 10/04/2022 8:01:07 AM PDT by allendale
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To: allendale
Amateurs like Putin talk about "limited" nuclear war, without knowing the severe downsides for themselves and the rest of the world.

1. The first nuke used - tactical, Atomic Demolition Munition (ADM) or full-up strategic - will unleash the gates of Hell for the world. They know it, we know it.

2. Nukes are filthy weapons; besides the blast, burn. direct radiation to the target, the indirect radiation, debris, and unconsumed radioactive matter from the bomb itself will be carried upward into the stratosphere and downwind and then all over the world. Everyone, everywhere - and their food supplies - will be in danger. Will make Chernobyl look like a picnic. Downwind in that part of the world includes most of the Middle and Near East and likely China too. New cancers, anyone?

3. It gives lie to the claim that they would be "liberating" the Ukraine - since it would be poisoning the ground for decades to come.

9 posted on 10/04/2022 8:15:19 AM PDT by Chainmail (Harrassment, to be effective, must be continuous.)
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To: allendale

Yes, Putin’s legacy will be leaving Russia in shambles, poor, weak, backward, and vulnerable.


14 posted on 10/04/2022 8:38:33 AM PDT by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: allendale
I don't agree. Ukraine cannot afford to concede any territory for the simple reason that the conditions of the Belovezh Accords, Alma-Ata Protocols, and the Budapest Memorandum depend on Ukraine NOT formally conceding their subservience to the will of Russia.

As long as Ukraine refuses, Russia doesn't have carte blanche to arbitrarily rewrite the borders of former Soviet republics to suit its own domestic requirements.

Ironically, the party most benefiting from Ukraine's dogged refusal to give up its right to tell Russia to pound sand is Belarus.

Glasnost, followed by the 1998 devolution of powers to the local soviets, established the principle that Russia was the center of a Union comprised of states that have self-government. Each republic was empowered to explore its own identity. That principle was further enshrined in the CIS Charter.

If Russia can annexe regions of other nations militarily - and do so legally, and against the wishes of those other nations - then that rips up a 34 year old principle established by Russia first, fed thru the Supreme Soviet, and cascaded down to local Soviets.

Lukashenko, and several other leaders of what used to be local Soviet republics, should be concerned - it's only because of that principle that they have real power over their own countries.

Many Muscovite nationalists want to reverse that entire process of devolution - claw the regional power structures back into Moscow, and rule from the center. To them, all UN Charter recognition, and all independent statehood, is illusory. They don't recognise the Baltics, Belarus, Ukraine, or the 'Stans as properly independent - their attitude is, ALL OF YOU BELONG TO MOTHER RUSSIA.

On Saturday, a guest on Rossiya 1 insisted that Belarus is part of Russia. To the utter horror of Vadim Gigin, who amongst other things is Chairman of the Belarusian Society Knowledge Association .

Even after the correction from Gigin that Belarus is actually an independent republic (i.e. not a district of Russia!), the other guy retorts, "Belarus is Russia".

Today, Lukashenko said: “As far as our participation in the special military operation in Ukraine is concerned, we are participating in it. We don't hide it. But we don't kill anyone. We don't send our military personnel anywhere. We don't violate our commitments.

It's very difficult to not see that as a warning shot to Moscow: Belarus is the closest it still has (with the possible exception of Chechnya) to a loyal lapdog but even it has its limits. It has signed multiple agreements of non-aggression and recognition with Ukraine AND THE OTHER SSRs, and it regards the principle of self-determination behind it to be sacrosanct. It will not launch an invasion on Ukraine, no matter what Moscow tells it to do. And, if the Muscovite ultranationalists insist on treating Belarus as if it were simply another district that needs to take orders, it might just find that Belarus stops cooperating.

17 posted on 10/04/2022 9:10:14 AM PDT by MalPearce ("You see, but you do not observe". https://www.thefabulous.co/s/2uHEJdj)
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