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From the Tsars to the Bolsheviks, Putin is just the latest incarnation of Russia's lust to dominate its borderlands with bloodshed: War historian ANTONY BEEVOR on why the horror in Ukraine was all too predictable
Daily Mail ^ | 5.14.2022 | Antony Beevor

Posted on 05/14/2022 3:42:11 PM PDT by libh8er

No country is as much a prisoner of its past as Russia. And no leader has become as much a victim of his own obsessive lies as Vladimir Putin. But where did this tragedy for the Russian people as well as Ukraine begin? And why did we not see this coming after the unspeakable brutality of Putin's conduct of war in Chechnya and Syria, deliberately using barrel bombs and nerve gas against civilian populations?

I certainly cannot claim to be one of the very few who had foreseen Putin's reckless gamble of invading Ukraine. I also underestimated the lingering resentment against the West among the majority of largely older Russians who get all their news from Kremlin-controlled media.

Putin is famous for his pronouncement that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geo-political disaster of the 20th Century. This was backed by a widespread conviction in Russia that the Cold War had been lost through a dirty trick after the US under Ronald Reagan deliberately outspent them on armaments.

The consequence of that collapse was war veterans and widows begging in the Metro, after their pensions became worth less than £4 a week.

Mikhail Gorbachev was blamed bitterly, partly because of the rapturous welcome he had received in the West, but also for his wife Raisa's conspicuous spending on their trips. In the Russian Ministry of Defence archives at Podolsk, my researcher and I overheard a conversation between cleaning women viciously welcoming the news that Mrs Gorbachev she had cancer. 'I hope she dies in agony', said one. 'It would serve them right'.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Politics
KEYWORDS: antonybeevor; putin; russia; tsars; ukraine
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1 posted on 05/14/2022 3:42:11 PM PDT by libh8er
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To: libh8er

Russia is not the threat. Democrats are the threat. Lather, rinse, repeat…


2 posted on 05/14/2022 3:45:33 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.She was, indeed, a hottie… Rest in peace, Joanne.)
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To: libh8er
Beevor drinks the neokoolaid.

Well, the Brits were never a discerning lot...

3 posted on 05/14/2022 3:45:41 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: NFHale
I also underestimated the lingering resentment against the West among the majority of largely older Russians who get all their news from Kremlin-controlled media.

As Beevor power-chugs the Liz Truss propaganda moonshine.

4 posted on 05/14/2022 3:47:12 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: kiryandil

“Beevor drinks the neokoolaid. Well, the Brits were never a discerning lot...”

Have you ever read any of his works? They are very good, especially his works on WWII.

I am looking forward to reading his new book, “RUSSIA: Revolution and Civil War,” which is now being released.


5 posted on 05/14/2022 3:52:46 PM PDT by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule. )
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To: NFHale
Amen to that. The Russians did not lock me down. Threaten to lock me up if I did not take the Kickapoo Joy Juice Nor did they put the restaurant where I ate out of business. It was all the the Choice of the People. A/K/A, the Democrats.
6 posted on 05/14/2022 3:55:20 PM PDT by sport
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To: libh8er

Peter the Great got his ass kicked by the Ottomans over control of the Black Sea.

While the Swedes regularly stomped him everywhere else, Pyotr did get Kiev.

Let’s just say this area of the world is complicated — and we would do well to stay out of it.


7 posted on 05/14/2022 3:56:15 PM PDT by nicollo
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To: libh8er

There’s a lot of Mongol blood in Russians. It shows.


8 posted on 05/14/2022 3:57:45 PM PDT by Chad C. Mulligan (qd4)
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To: libh8er

The home country of this toilet paper news paper did an incredible amount of lusting over other peoples lands. Russia expanded by land. Britain and Spain in particular, by sea. Get over Russian imperialism and expansion It’s a fact of history.


9 posted on 05/14/2022 4:00:38 PM PDT by Long Jon No Silver
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To: libh8er

Keeping in mind the Russian context within which he operates, Putin has been a pretty good leader until now, pretty savvy.

But I believe he got bad news from the doctor and wanted to secure his place in history by returning Russia to its historic borders, and returning Ukraine to the fold. He thought it would be a quick and relatively bloodless operation. He did not expect it to turn into a full on war. Biden’s disastrous handling of the Afghan war told him that Biden was no threat, and he believed the Zelensky government would collapse almost immediately.

When Biden threatened more sanctions in response to the buildup on the eve of war, he interpreted that as a green light (as did I); Russia has dealt pretty successfully with myriad sanctions, what’s one more?

Actually, almost everyone believed the same thing. It was a miscalculation that has cost him his legacy, and thousands of lives both Russian and Ukrainian. At this point he needs to find a way to claim a victory that will justify all that it has cost.


10 posted on 05/14/2022 4:01:00 PM PDT by marron
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To: libh8er

Having recently read many books on the Russian Revolution this article is spot on.


11 posted on 05/14/2022 4:02:16 PM PDT by devane617 (RUN FOR LOCAL ELECTED OFFICE! COUNCIL,SCHOOL BOARD, ETC.)
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To: libh8er

All that lusting into native border lands as European colonisers spread west in the U.S.


12 posted on 05/14/2022 4:03:30 PM PDT by Long Jon No Silver
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To: sport; kiryandil

Re joy juice;

I didn’t and won’t take it. Period. End of story.

There’s only two ways to convince someone to do something- logic, or force.

There was no logic in it for me. That leaves force.

And good luck with that.… They wanna play games, I can play games.


13 posted on 05/14/2022 4:05:18 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.She was, indeed, a hottie… Rest in peace, Joanne.)
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To: ought-six
Ardennes 1944 [special study of mine] and Arnhem.

Not a fan of Berlin 1945 discussions, having read a couple of tomes about the final battle. A real downer.

Didn't know that he was coming out with a new book, thanks for the heads-up. Did you know that he studied under Keegan?

Also, did you know that The Green Books are online, and you can download them [I imagine it would cost a pretty penny to get the originals, considering how many pounds of print would be there]?

14 posted on 05/14/2022 4:09:03 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: NFHale; sport
Pureblood here.

I evaded the dragnet.

15 posted on 05/14/2022 4:10:03 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: NFHale
It's lost on the war crowd here......”I hate Russia that's good enough”

I mean if you drank daily Mail or euromaiden press or any lefty or neocon or GOPe org spew hell I'd believe it too

Man strange alliance between half this forum and their usual foes....

16 posted on 05/14/2022 4:17:52 PM PDT by wardaddy (Have you ever seen more crazy assed women than on parade nowadays.....it's astounding ...and ugly.)
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To: NFHale

More often than not here are two sides to every story.

‘Russia Started the War’ and Other Fallacies

Mike Whitney
The Unz Review
2022-05-10 00:00:00

The_grandmother_with_a_red_fla.jpg

On Monday, Putin delivered the annual “Victory Day” speech celebrating Russia’s victory over Nazi Germany in 1945. The Russian president made none of the hyperbolic pronouncements the media had predicted but, instead, gave a brief recap of the events leading up to the war in Ukraine. There was none of the bravado you’d expect from a leader trying to gin up support for the ongoing war. Putin simply reminded the crowd that he had done everything he could to avoid the bloody conflict in which Russia is currently embroiled. Here’s part of what he said:

“Last December we proposed signing a treaty on security guarantees. Russia urged the West to hold an honest dialogue in search for meaningful and compromising solutions, and to take account of each other’s interests. All in vain. NATO countries did not want to heed us, which means they had totally different plans. And we saw it.”

This is an accurate account of what took place in the months preceding the war. Putin tried to avoid a confrontation by repeatedly asking the US to address Russia’s reasonable security concerns. Unfortunately, the Biden administration brushed off Putin’s demands without even providing a response. The US and NATO insist that Ukraine has every right to choose whatever security arrangement it wants.

But that’s clearly not the case. The United States and every nation in NATO have signed treaties (Istanbul in 1999, and Astana in 2010) that stipulate they cannot improve their own security at the expense of others.


17 posted on 05/14/2022 4:20:34 PM PDT by saintgermaine (Saintgermain the time traveler)
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To: libh8er

Daily Mail propaganda is always good for a laugh!
.
Finally a plausible description of these pontoon crossings over the last 10days or so (aka “tampon crossings” if you listen to defense Politics Asia - which is actually good and rather balanced)..
at least 4 crossings - 2 thwarted,1-successful-1- partly successful
losses were heavy on both sides..Russians may have lost half to 2/3 of the 75 vehicles in the photo. Rus artillery has also been accurate..from link below “the hills were littered with ukranian bodies”. The russians control a swath of territory on the Bilohrivka side of the river that stretches from Bilohrivka to Rubizne. The Rus captured one town and fighting continues in two others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qyr06Ydw5w


18 posted on 05/14/2022 4:20:52 PM PDT by CarolinaReaganFan
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To: wardaddy

It’s a convenient distraction for the Democrats… But they are the enemy of this country, they have been the enemy of this country, and they will continue to be the enemy of this country, and every American that wants to maintain their freedom and liberty.

Reiterate: the Democrats are the enemy. They are no longer your countrymen, if they ever were.


19 posted on 05/14/2022 4:21:17 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.She was, indeed, a hottie… Rest in peace, Joanne.)
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To: kiryandil

“Not a fan of Berlin 1945 discussions, having read a couple of tomes about the final battle. A real downer.”

Yeah, the fall of Berlin is a very sobering read, no matter who wrote about it.

“Didn’t know that he was coming out with a new book, thanks for the heads-up. Did you know that he studied under Keegan?”

Yes, I knew he studied under Keegan. That’s one of the things that directed me to Beevor.

“Also, did you know that The Green Books are online, and you can download them [I imagine it would cost a pretty penny to get the originals, considering how many pounds of print would be there]?”

Are you talking about the old motorist book? I’d heard of it, many years ago; but have never read it.


20 posted on 05/14/2022 4:21:41 PM PDT by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule. )
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