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To: BitWielder1

Since this began any time Putin withdrew from an area it was reported by Ukraine they drove them back. I tend to think Putin state he had certain missions he was going to accomplish and layed them out pretty specifically. But the press consistantly pushes He wants Ukraine, or he’s going for the entire eastern area, or he’s going for Moldova etc. etc.

If you check what Putin said over what the press has stated it looks like he’s simply pulling back from areas he’s accomplished his purpose in.


22 posted on 05/10/2022 9:31:33 PM PDT by caww ( )
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To: caww; All
[...] he had certain missions he was going to accomplish and layed laid them out pretty specifically.

1. "Demilitarization" of the Ukraine;

2. "Denazification" of the Ukraine;

3. "Neutralization" (no NATO membership) of the Ukraine.

4. Ending the "genocide on the Russian people" in the Ukraine.

Everything Putin said boiled down to those four goals. (It's useful to the discussion to explicitly remind us of those things.)

Translation:

1. Military victory over Ukraine.

2. Decapitation of the current Ukrainian leadership and installation of a puppet state.

3. This one goal is a relatively straight-forward one. Putin wants to force Ukraine to forever renounce NATO membership and he wants to force NATO to accept this and back off!

4. Securing the "sovereignty" of the two Donbass "People's Republics," i.e., effectively denying those territories to the Ukraine for all future time.

Translation of translation:

1. Ukraine loses the war. At least: Russian battlefield performance is optically better than Ukrainian battlefield performance. At least at least: Ukrainian losses are greater than Russian losses.

2. Zelinskyy either assassinated or forced to abdicate (and flee the country or be captured and tried as a war criminal). New Russian-backed puppet leader installed.

3. Puppet Ukrainian rump state vows eternal neutrality.

4. Ukrainian military operations to retake Luhansk an Donetsk territories cease, Ukrainians withdraw, LPR and DPR take their "rightful place" as sovereign nations and are recognized by Ukraine.

Now, let's compare those goals with what the Russians have actually accomplished or have any hope of accomplishing:

1. Russia doesn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of achieving any sort of "equitable" military victory over Ukraine. The best he's looking at right now is some sort of a draw. Russian losses (personnel and materiel) have been devastating. It will take years for it to recover, at least partially - but it will NEVER again be able to field as many soldiers. The world's estimation of Russia as a preeminent military force has plummeted.

2. Zelinskyy is alive and functioning. Zelinskyy has become a hero to the world, is being "courted" by all the major powers. His govt. is intact. His standing as a world leader has been established. His reputation as a stateman has been burnished. There is no foreseeable scenario where that would change.

3. Ukraine has been promised fast-track membership in NATO, and the E.U. has likewise promised to expedite the membership process. SWEDEN and FINLAND are now breaking from their longstanding position of neutrality and hurrying to join NATO. Russia's NATO border thus at least DOUBLES in length!

4. Putin still has some semblance of retaining the Donbass, at this point - though that could change once Ukraine is re-armed with NATO weapons and should it decide to "forge on." There's even a possibility that, if Russia is delivered a humiliating military defeat elsewhere, it might even have to surrender the Crimea at the negotiating table (I DON'T think that Ukraine can reconquer it / has the will to reconquer it.)

At this stage, let's also point out that Putin is also pursuing militarily certain UNSTATED goals, e.g.: The absorption of a contiguous land bridge stretching to Transnistria. This one is a no-go from the start.

Regards,

29 posted on 05/11/2022 12:21:37 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: caww
But the press consistantly pushes He wants Ukraine,

Lol, sure that Russian column 3 1/2 miles long trying to encircle Kyiv was just our imagination.

37 posted on 05/11/2022 4:26:05 AM PDT by tlozo (Trump-the Russian invasion of Ukraine is " truly a crime against humanity")
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