Posted on 04/19/2022 8:54:06 AM PDT by TakebackGOP
You are correct. This changed with the standardization of Paramedic licensing. My daughter is a medic and she pronounces people dead all the time. The medical controller (the doc on the phone) actually signs the document, but paramedics have seen enough dead people to know when someone is dead.
They DO often transport dead people, doing “courtesy” CPR. This is to benefit the family who don’t want grandpa dying in the bathroom and having to wait until the hearse gets there.
I went through Airborne training after ROTC Summer Camp in 1974. That was the most fun I had of all my Army training. I went through IOBC in the Summer of 1975. Would have done Ranger School, but my wife was pregnant at the time.
My one year as a Mech Infantry Platoon Leader had two West Point graduates. One was pretty sharp; the other was an idiot. Both of them were sadly lacking on the elements of a night mounted assault. They and the A-hole OCS company commander didn’t know that there is supposed to be a code word to begin the final assault. I was insistent that there was and that the CO should check with BN HQ. The CPT finally told me, “That’s enough LT.” My response was “O.K.”
We got into position and immediately headed up the ridge; got to the top; got called to the CO’s track who had the saddest look on his face you could imagine. There was a code word to begin the final assault. I laughed my ass off. What made it worse was that the BN CO, BDE CO, and Assistant Division Commander for Operations were our objective.
Since I was RA Transportation Corp and had decided by that point I wasn’t going to make it a career, I didn’t give a shit about my OERs.
It need not be dangerous; at least not so dangerous that three students die within such a short period of time because of non-training related health issues.
_____________________________________________________________
The one I know who made it through and survived a helo crash years later in service explained “the only easy day is yesterday” was not just a saying. Compare the physical demands of what these folks have to get through on top of having a “mandated” clot shot. I find this not unlike the many soccer and other sports players dropping all over.
Erik Christiansen’s collapse on the field during EURO 2020 is the most widely known incident of cardiomyopathy from the Covid shots. Thankfully, he has recovered and is back playing again.
Slightly different topic. For those who think top level soccer players aren’t just about the best conditioned athletes in the world, just take a look at their bodies when they take their shirts off.
I was just talking rule of thumb and traditional practice. There are lots of variations at the state and municipal level.
I remember an old medical anecdote of a young doctor with an inflated ego who halted two ambulance jockeys pushing a gurney with a sheet covered cadaver, and demanded to know where they were going. “We’re taking this dead guy to the basement morgue,” one replied.
“I’ll be the judge of that (death),” he replied, pulling down the sheet to reveal the cadaver with its head tucked under its armpit.
I think those are two different things.
First, because the training is demanding in the extreme, it is dangerous. Putting men into a near hypo or hyperthermic state precisely because they will encounter it in real operations is not an “atrocity”. It is the best thing for men who have to be prepared to encounter it, work through it for a mission, and survive it.
The fact that there were fatalities close together does not automatically make it an “atrocity” as the mother is characterizing it.
That said, she is entitled to the truth, whatever that is.
Thanks for serving. Those types of men who apply are the kind you WANT to apply, who may not yet know they have limits, and the training process weeds out those who really aren’t suitable. A special breed of man, no doubt.
The fact that the Navy is trying to hide the autopsy report is very telling.
He liky died from gross negligence of the Cadre in charge of training or the medical staff responsible for their health; Covid-19 vaccine side effects; or both.
If the family sues, they don’t need to have the autopsy to win. The fact that the government is hiding it is more than sufficient for a jury to conclude the results weighs very heavily in favor of the parents case. That’s because a refusal to disclosed is an admission of liability.
I think the Navy, at this point, is more concerned about the criminal liability of the trainers and medical personnel than they are the money they will have to pay
Yes, we did that a lot as well.
Yes, there are variations among municipalities in the same county.
One time we went to a morbidly obese dead guy on the second floor of an apartment building. He had been dead for a while... he had lividity and rigor mortis. The paramedics called in to the hospital for a time, and I called the medical examiner for transportation from the scene. I made a special request for a bariatric gurney. But when the lady showed up, she had only one of the normal flimsy gurneys in the back of her truck.
We put the body in a jumbo-sized bag and drug it down the exterior stairs. Then we put it on the flimsy gurney and with one person on each corner we started wheeling it toward the medical examiners truck. My driver and I anticipated that it was going to collapse, so we had our arms tensed up and holding some upward pressure where we were gripping directly across the gurney from each other.
When the gurney collapsed after about 20 feet of progress my third man and the medical examiner just let go of their corners. My driver and I had a good grip on our corners and with our arms tensed and ready it caused our heads to go straight across the gurney and slam together. It sounded like a couple of coconuts banging into one another. The medical examiner lady screamed, “Oh my God! Are you two OK? “ My third man replied, “Don't worry mam, they are both Republicans.” We all laughed so hard that we forgot about our mega head butt, and went back to work getting our slightly banged up body back into the bag and into the truck.
That may be that they are hiding it. Or there may be other reasons. You make assertions based on an emotionally based story with very little to no detail from sources known to harbor antipathy towards the military.
I saw no detail beyond the specific date of death and assertions of malfeasance from a grieving mother who is part of an Internet based group, the kind which is created by people with axes to grind.
I would wait for more real detail before accepting the emotional opinion of the parent as gospel fact.
I served as an officer in the Army from 1975-1979. I am far from being antipathetic towards the military. I just don’t trust the military establishment any more than I trust the civilian establishment.
We were in at the same time, thanks for your service.
It is true that, for the Naval Investigative Service (NIS), they are more interested in protecting the reputation of the Navy than protecting any individual sailor, as the USS Iowa investigation clearly showed.
On that we can agree.
Where I think we disagree is on accepting the claims of this grieving mother characterizing this as an “atrocity” at this stage of things.
IMO, any mother who watched her son go through SEAL training without a filter or context would view it as an atrocity.
He was in that time frame when he rang out. He was at the barracks with others who had DOR’ed for a long period of time and their ranks grew each day/week. He was content with his decision but he was worried about several of the guys there and their mental state they were devastated.
He got reassigned and pulled a tour in the med with his outfit during covid lockdowns. Got stuck in Sicily and said it was a crap hole. Confined to an airbase and the Italians served them the awfullest food, he said one meal out of three was fit to eat.
He’s being mustered out for refusing the jab on an honorable discharge but they keep extending the date of discharge. I guess covid isn’t as deadly as DOD proclaims.
It’s been 2.5 months since her son died. I’m willing to cut her some slack when she says it’s an atrocity that she has not been given the results of his autopsy by now.
Because it has been 2.5 months since his death, a reasonable person could conclude the Navy is trying to cover up the cause of death.
Perhaps, but without knowing the facts about who talked to whom, when, how, etc. which the story does not give us, I will wait to draw conclusions.
You and I will disagree on this, but let’s leave it at that. It isn’t an issue that we see it differently.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.