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Many Western analysts and think-tankers largely assumed Moscow would secure a quick victory. How did Western analysts misunderstand Russia’s military so badly?
Quora ^ | 4/4/2022 | Zbigniew Łobocki

Posted on 04/06/2022 2:39:32 PM PDT by Zhang Fei

“The sinking feeling you get when you secretly sold off half the army’s fuel and find out Gerasimov secretly sold off the other half”:

Let’s ask a simple question: how much fuel does the Russian army have?

Western military analysts may try to answer it by looking at pictures of Russian fuel depots. I mean, if you have a big depot that can hold a gazillion litres, you probably built it because you have a gazillion litres to store, right?

Or they may look at the size of the armed forces and the official Russian war manuals and calculate the fuel reserves based on that. They have 5000 tanks, and this manual says that for each tank there needs to be this much fuel in reserves.

They may even get hold of a classified internal report on the state of Russian fuel reserves. It’s an official internal report from the ministry of defense, has to be right!

Except it’s not. Even in Russia, no one has any idea how much fuel they have. Because fuel is the unofficial secondary currency of the army.

There’s no analyst in the world that can factor in all the stealing. I mean:

Those pouches are elements of reactive armor system “Relikt”. They are supposed to hold explosive material. If a specialized enemy AT round strikes the pouch, the explosives go bang and reflect the energy of that round outwards. Except on this Russian tank, someone stole the explosives and replaced them with egg cartons. Probably they are a little bit less effective.

The problem is that the Russian military is a very thick coat of bullshit and lies covering up a rotten, corrupt institution. On the ground, conscripts are raped and subjected to levels of violence you would find in the worst US prisons. Generals have limousines and yachts on salaries which would not support a hundredth of that lifestyle. The only way this holds together is if everyone denies reality and lies, lies lies about everything.

And then western military experts try to interpret that cacophony of lies. How is a military analyst supposed to estimate the level of corruption and its impact on the deterioration of specific capabilities of the Russian army? How many tanks have egg cartons for armor, is it one, 1% or 70%? We saw soldiers cut radios out of their BTRs to sell them for scrap (precious color metals). What is the cumulative effect on the comms ability?

It’s all very difficult, so the strength of Russian forces seems to be estimated without taking corruption into account, and then when it turns out corruption crippled the army, the experts can only go “woah, we did not expect that”.

And on top of the corruption there is propaganda about new weapons, like the Su57 “stealth” fighter that does not have stealthy surfaces, nor engine, nor sensors it was supposed to have, and crashes due to simple mechanical faults. Or the T14 Armata tank, which was sent to Syria for field testing and after that, its production line was quitely switched off.

Even the Russian commanders were surprised at how shitty their army is, so how were western analysts supposed to know?



TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: biden; putin; russia; ukraine
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1 posted on 04/06/2022 2:39:32 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: Zhang Fei
Except on this Russian tank, someone stole the explosives and replaced them with egg cartons. Probably they are a little bit less effective.

The yolk is on Ivan...

2 posted on 04/06/2022 2:41:49 PM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (Let's go Brandon)
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To: marcusmaximus; Paul R.; Bruce Campbells Chin; PIF; familyop; MercyFlush; tet68; BeauBo; TalBlack; ..

Why Russian lightning may have blown up the fuel stores at Belgorod. Putin’s gonna call it an Ukrainian attack because the alternative is too embarrassing to contemplate. That’s why you see these accidents happen from time to time. The issue has nothing to with careless materials handling and everything to do with the elimination of evidence (and perhaps uncooperative auditors) that inventory was missing. Bottom line - it’s not that Milley doesn’t know Russia’s capabilities - even if top Russians were on the US payroll, *they* couldn’t provide an accurate assessment. The fish rots from the head down. And when the head (Putin) is worth $200b, what’s a few million dollars taken from the till here and there but table scraps not worth feeling guilty about?


3 posted on 04/06/2022 2:44:44 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: Zhang Fei
I suspect the skill level and degree of commitment of a lot of our intelligence analysts is not as high as their bosses would like us to believe. The CIA, DOD, and FBI regularly make incorrect assessments, and fail at doing their job.

So it is not surprising that the same crew greatly overestimated the ability of the Russian armed forces. Particularly when it is in the interests of our military and security establishment to justify their large budgets by claiming that Russia is a huge military threat.

4 posted on 04/06/2022 2:46:20 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: Zhang Fei

Well I know l am surprised.


5 posted on 04/06/2022 2:46:30 PM PDT by gibsonguy
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To: Zhang Fei

There’s always something to be said for the edge in motivation. The Russians were sent on Putin’s orders. The Ukrainians are laying their lives on the line for their nation, their homes and their families.


6 posted on 04/06/2022 2:46:41 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Кчерту Путина, Kчерту Россию)
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To: Zhang Fei

All the existing Russia/Russian comparison vids against the US such and such, EU such and such, etc., etc., etc. are bunk, super dubious at best, imho.


7 posted on 04/06/2022 2:47:17 PM PDT by cranked
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To: Zhang Fei

Land holders give a damn...Conscripts don’t


8 posted on 04/06/2022 2:47:45 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: Zhang Fei

What they misunderstood was the goal, even though they stated it clearly... to stop the attacks on Donbass, to destroy their military capacity and eliminate nazi militias.

It was not a seize the country operation.


9 posted on 04/06/2022 2:47:55 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up..)
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To: Zhang Fei
Who gets big fat budget increases year after year?

A Western Military complex that tells it politicians they have a massive advantage over any possible conventional threat

or

the one who year after year hyperventilates about Russia and China being “peer or near peer” militarys.

10 posted on 04/06/2022 2:48:29 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (They would have abandon leftism to achieve sanity. Freeper Olog-hai)
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To: Zhang Fei

When in the last 30 years did these pecker heads get anything right?


11 posted on 04/06/2022 2:48:57 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Zhang Fei

Russia is trying to fight a war with bullshiite as a fractal element. Hard to analyze, hard to anticipate, but it is starting to show up on the field in its lack of effectiveness.


12 posted on 04/06/2022 2:49:27 PM PDT by Kevmo (Give back Ukes their Nukes https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts)
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To: DesertRhino
How did Western analysts misunderstand Russia’s military strategy so badly?

fixed it.

13 posted on 04/06/2022 2:50:10 PM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: Zhang Fei

Because Milley and his host of General idiots have not a clue what is going on. They are too busy teaching CRT and making sure everyone has the pronouns they choose.


14 posted on 04/06/2022 2:50:17 PM PDT by Singermom
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To: Zhang Fei

It’s like Kurt Schlicter says. Our “ruling class” is garbage.

L


15 posted on 04/06/2022 2:50:49 PM PDT by Lurker (Peaceful coexistence with the Left is not possible. Stop pretending that it is.)
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To: DesertRhino

The biggest “Nazi” in all of this is Vladimir Putin and those who fellate him daily on this site.


16 posted on 04/06/2022 2:52:23 PM PDT by Clemenza (I have no tolerance for tolerance)
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To: Zhang Fei

As someone wise and beautiful once said, “Kleptocrats gonna klept.”

(It was me. I said it.)

Lie down with dogs, sometimes the fleas suck you dry.


17 posted on 04/06/2022 2:53:52 PM PDT by CrazyCatChick (DEATH POKE!)
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To: freeandfreezing

“Particularly when it is in the interests of our military and security establishment to justify their large budgets by claiming that Russia is a huge military threat.”

Agreed. The military/industrial complex has been using Russian fear porn (and now China most recently) to justify the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on equipment and R&D. Now they have egg on their face and I suspect are working feverishly to develop a plausible explanation or a new Boogeyman to keep the money flowing.


18 posted on 04/06/2022 2:56:29 PM PDT by Qui is (First, never apologize to the enemy, and second, never forget that Biden spews and Harris swallows. )
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To: freeandfreezing

These are government agencies. So they are filled with affirmative action morons and partisan Democrat children. They all think they are brilliant and never wrong.


19 posted on 04/06/2022 2:56:41 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: freeandfreezing

Exactly. The “intelligence community” is about as good at their job as the Russian army is at theirs.


20 posted on 04/06/2022 2:56:44 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard ( Resist the narrative.)
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