Posted on 03/11/2022 7:18:01 AM PST by PittsburghAfterDark
Poles now tell American jokes.
So, WHAT IF the Ukranians snuck into Poland under the cover of darkness and flew away with some old planes the Polish didn’t want anymore -— what then???
Can you imagine what could happen in the fog of war if the Russians identified the old Russian planes with Ukranian pilots as Russian. How many successful sorties could the Ukranians complete.
This was mentioned about Afghanistan -— what IF we had to go back in and they are using OUR equipment against us? IIF we couldn’t identify them quickly enough as foe it could get ugly.
Just some random thoughts.
Exactly correct. Despite all the propaganda, even a cursory look at the Eastern Front of WWII shows what has already happened. Azov and the Uke military got too preoccupied with screwing with Lugansk and Donetsk and wound up getting surrounded. Now like Paulus at Stalingrad, Azov is cut off in Mariupol and there is no escape. That is why they are screaming for a “humanitarian corridor”... supplies in, Azov out if they need.
Right now the Russians have allowed over 100k to leave through corridors they have specified and control.
The Uke military was desperately hoping for assaults into city centers, but the Russians have stayed with hitting Uke military and gaining control of the Black Sea access.
Kiev is already cut off from the Dneiper which was super important to them.
Zelenski needs to get a deal soon. Their main weapon is propaganda, but that will only get you so far. They have lost control of the air, and no Uke armies are capable of anything resembling a large unit activity.
They have lost. Their next wild card will have to be something like a nuclear or biological or chemical false flag like the Syrian rebels pulled. Anything to try to drag NATO in.
Cargo planes are pouring into Poland with goodies for Ukraine. I promise there is plenty of air to air assets in support of those operations. The AWACS are supporting the fighters.
You have to realize that the Russians are not very advanced in terms of their targeting systems right now. They tried to upgrade some of their planes to the type of modern systems that we use, but they abandoned that because they simply couldn’t afford the cost. They did make some upgrades that are still inferior to our systems, but it is still not uncommon for Russian pilots to be flying with paper maps and handwritten target calculations in their cockpits. I imagine the same is true of the Polish MiGs. So those MiGs might seem useless pitted against a Western air force, but probably could be of some value against the Russians.
The more problematic issue for the Ukrainians would be: do they even still have airfields, support personnel, etc that they would need to launch missions using these MiGs?
Only nato/us has the technical ability to control the airspace over Ukraine. Giving fighter aircraft to them is useless. Even for us it would incur significant losses. The current generation of surface to air missiles is scary. Without sam suppression flying over there is a suicide mission.
Let’s begin with this premise: the proposed transfer of those MiG-29s from new NATO members (Poland, Slovakia, Bulgaria) to Ukraine either begin in Washington, or was tacitly approved by Team Biden.
Ukraine has done a remarkable job preserving their air assets so far in the conflict. DoD background brief this morning indicated that roughly 2/3 of Ukraine’s front-line fighters (MiG-29s and SU-27s) are still operable. Ukraine is only flying about 10 sorties a day; part of that is aimed at preserving their fighter fleet, but it’s also a reflection of how poorly Russian Air Force has performed so far.
According to DoD, Russians are entering Ukrainian airspace on a very limited basis; they seem to prefer using stand-off weapons, including cruise missiles, whenever possible. Some of those air-launched weapons are fired from jets flying over Russian or Belarus territory. That’s a testament to Ukrainian SAM crews; most of their S-300 and BUK-3 (NATO designations SA-10 and SA-11_are still in the fight and have destroyed their share of Russian aircraft. At lower altitudes, Stinger has been deadly against Putin’s attack helicopters. That’s why Russians are only flying about 200 sorties a day, and many of those in “safe” airspace.
So, additional air assets could make a difference for Ukraine, assuming they have the pilots, logistics and fuel to keep them flying. But Biden’s NatSec team approached the transfer in their usual, feckles manner. They wanted a quick transfer of MiG-29s directly from Poland to Ukraine. That way, the Poles assume the risk while Joe can claim NATO is “helping” Kyiv, with lesser chance of Russian retribution.
The Poles are anything but stupid and saw they were being asked to stick their necks out, while Washington could do a diplomatic victory lap. So, to share the risk (and ensure senior NATO partners had a little skin in the game), Warsaw announced the fighter would be flown to Ramstein AB, Germany. After that, it would be up to us to arrange their movement on to Ukraine. Brilliant move by the Poles, and it left the Adderall Kid and his flunkies doing their best Ralph Kramden (hammada..hammada..hammada). At that point, Biden called the deal off, barely 24 hours after his hapless SecState green-lit the transfer.
Would the transfer be a game changer? No, but it would allow Ukraine to sustain their current level of resistance and who knows? Outfit some of the additional MiGs with PGMs, dumb bombs and rockets, and you could make a real dent in some of those Russian armored columns trying to encircle Ukrainian cities.
And the Poles were right to demand shared risk; don’t forget, they were giving up a chunk of the front-line fighter capabilities in exchange for....? Any transfer should have been accompanied by deployment of USAF F-16s to Poland, while the Polish Air Force moves to the top of the list for upgraded Block 70 Vipers and more F-35s. Of course, those needed guarantees never materialized.
Make no mistake: there’s about a 99% chance this idea originated in Washington. But we weren’t willing to share the risk and when the Poles called us on it, Joe chickened out—and added insult to injury by dispatching The Cackler to Warsaw, in an effort to “smooth things over.”
“what use would aircraft do in this particular situation without AWACS or airborne command and control? “
Wonder if the Nato AWACS currently flying out of Poland could support those upgraded MiG-29s with Joint Over the Horizon?
The MiG-29 can be configured for antiradar missions.
LOL!!! 100%
This isn’t about battle order or doctrine, tactics, efficacy or anything of the sort. It is about the MIC selling off some fighters to the US Government so it could give them to whomever. They don’t give a crap who gets them. Anything in them will have Export Bloc capabilities down at least one or two revisions from current US capability.
Those poor bastards would get caught coming and going.
So how long will it take to defeat the neo-con warmongers and liberate the whole Ukraine ?
It took two months for the encircled Germans to surrender. They wanted to far earlier, but Berlin ordered them to fight to the last man. It would play better in the news.
They surrendered 300+K troops. That’s what encirclement does. It’s a bit surprising civilians are being allowed out. They consume food.
I think I saw somewhere that the Russians had a couple FF incidents at the beginning of the invasion when a ship shot down one or two of Russia's planes on accident. I have no idea if it was true or not. But, it wouldn't surprise me.
“It took two months for the encircled Germans to surrender.”
I think that’s a very pessimistic scenario. Given the rate the mongol pigs are burning in their shitty vehicles, I would be more optimistic.
Your enemy is in Washington DC.
You will figure it out soon enough.
You mean the US bio weapon labs ?
Do they have munitions for the Mig29s? Modern airplanes have guidance and targeting systems for different ordinance that the plane can deliver.
Try to speak out on social media about any subject that differs from the “official narrative” and watch what happens next....
Big Tech has an alliance with .gov to own and control you.
So any chances that Putin will liberate us ?
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