Lots of AWACS and Air Refueling activity over Poland.
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Posted on 03/11/2022 7:18:01 AM PST by PittsburghAfterDark
This is something I have been perplexed about or at least had questions about.
I understand Poland has offered the Ukraine their MiG-29's hoping to replace them with American F-16's. I understand that the Biden administration put a stop for that. 43 Republican Senators want to push the deal, which won't happen.
However my question is this; of what use would aircraft do in this particular situation without AWACS or airborne command and control? Most air to air combat seems to be over the horizon as opposed to dogfighting.
Would they not have to turn on their radars to look for airborne targets and become proverbial come kill me signs under this scenario?
Obviously there are going to be a ton of AA assets on the ground for the Russians. I'm going to assume that the Ukrainians don't have HARM missiles, a Wild Weasel type function in their air force or a way to mitigate AA units besides flares.
So my basic question is this; what would the true military value be if they are fighting without AWACS command and control and significant anti-AA abilities?
Simon says...I killed this many serfs...
They could use more of them.
Small territory, use Command & Control outside of Ukraine? I know a whole other can of worms that would open..... Asking for my friend who likes to solve problems and does not think of implications...
Re Wild Weasel - I would assume they have something of the sort, but doubt it’s deployable and survivable under the current circumstances.
Poland wants the U.S. to serve as a middleman in the transaction.
* Poland sends 28 MiG 29s (built in the 80s) to a U.S. airbase in Germany.
* In exchange U.S. sends modern F-16s to Poland.
* Somehow, U.S. allows Ukrainian pilots to take possession of the MiGs. The Ukrainian pilots are already trained to fly the MiGs.
In Poland’s mind this allows them to avoid direct accountability, and avoid the wrath of Russia.
How much this would help Ukraine is debatable. They would be no match for the Russian air force in a direct confrontation. However, I suppose they could be useful in bombing runs, assuming they have the necessary munitions, airfields, fuel, etc.
With pilots willing to take the risk, they could raise hell with a static column before being shot down.
Say what one wants about the NWO, ‘deep state’, or other nefarious powers that some consider to be the real villains (as opposed to Putin)- but the Ukrainian people are heroic and inspirational, as well as giving the Russians tit-for-tat at the propaganda/social media aspect of this war.
> Somehow, U.S. allows Ukrainian pilots to take possession of the MiGs.
They’ll just leave them on the runway at Ramstein with the keys in them and the engines running while the pilot runs into the BX for a cup of coffee.
The MIG29 is ancient. When it entered service, its source of scary was its speed. Because it is ancient, spare parts are not something you go buy from Autozone, unless it is in Moscow.
The warmongers and NATO are all fighting a PR battle while Russia fights an actual military battle. Mostly in the east near Donbas. They ran a convoy south towards Kiev and stopped. They are waiting for their main forces encircling 75% of the Ukraine military, which is near Donbas to arrive.
The monumental silliness about Chinese tires and running out of fuel is delusional. Those forces were doing exercises for literally months north of the Belarus border. They know exactly how much fuel they burn and how many miles are on the tires. This stuff is just absurd thinking.
Russia’s military gets its officers just like the US, from an ROTC equivalent arrangement with 70 civilian universities with attached military training centers and a handful of other mtc’s unattached (their academies). This is US equivalent stuff. The senior Ukraine military officers Went To The Same Schools. The generals on both sides were all classmates. They all studied the same battles, mostly Stalingrad. Both sets of generals know the outcome of all this.
Does this mean the war is lost for Zelensky? Yes.
He should take whatever deal will let him keep some power, cozy up to Russia for the good of his people, and get lower natgas prices as a Russia ally. Their day to day lives will improve from what they were pre invasion.
Ideology does not put food on the table.
Lots of AWACS and Air Refueling activity over Poland.
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For starters, a MiG-29 isn’t stealthy, and every inch of Ukraine is well within the range of S-400 missiles. We specialized in world beating aircraft and the ability to project power. The Russians have the problem of defending a giant airspace and have developed truly dangerous SAMs. This one flies at Mach 3.5 and can hit a target moving at Mach 14.
So basically, you’ll get pilots jumping into a plane, a variant of which they have never flown, going straight into a very hot environment. Then they have to land somewhere. Whatever base they choose will be seen and blasted with Iskander missiles. They would all be destroyed in a couple of days.
The only way to prevent that is to hit the SAM sites in Russia and Belarus. This mission is beyond the Ukes and would have to be NATO.
So they aren’t getting these planes unless there is a cease fire agreement. And since Russia has determined that the Ukes _are- going to be demilitarized or they aren’t stopping, sending in 29s right after an agreement won’t work.
So as I see it, the only way you will see “Ukrainian” MiG-29s is for us to form a Ukrainian Air Force in exile in Poland, where they will remain. It would look like the Polish Air Force in England during WWII. They will fly no missions in the country because that would be an attack launching from NATO territory and that means WWIII. So there will be a ton of stories in the news, photos of MiG-29s with Uke colors, flyovers, etc...One may intercept a Russian plane over the Baltic along with NATO. And all prepping for the big day they return. DC and NATO get to spend money and look like they are making a stand but not actually provoke WWIII.
It’s going nowhere.
Ukrainians are reporting that Russian pilots ejecting are experiencing many parachute failures. They speculate it's being done on purpose to keep pilots from talking, but I suspect the usual Russian incompetent maintenance because they would eventually get the pilots back, and a trained pilot is worth more than the aircraft.
It’s also a really really bad idea to eject over an area you just bombed.
I know anyone dropping ordnance on my city who subsequently ejected is *NOT* going to be treated under any rules of warfare any more than someone who bursts into my house with a weapon is going to get a ‘fair trial’. A parachute failure might be preferable to how my counterpart over there would treat any invading SOB; much faster and less painful.
Does an ejecting pilot have control over parachute deployment? I would think not, as the pilot may be unconscious.
Very good point about flooding Ukraine with Stingers, and then flying over in Russian airframes.
Hopefully some current or former combat pilot will get on this forum to splain to everyone that you don’t jump from being qualified on a gen 1 aircraft to a gen 2 aircraft over night. Going from MIG21 to a MIG 29 is a 3-6 month deal. Going to an F16 its more like 12 mos. My understanding is that most of these Ukrainian pilots are qualified on MIG21’s. Then there’s the problem of no radar.
The Ukrainian air force has aircraft but they are grounded because the Russians took out their radar and blew up their fuel depots days 1-2.
Apparently the Ukrainians were flying their few remaining planes out of far western airfields in Lutsk and Ivano-Fankivsk.
Both were hit and put out of action last night.
Even jumping from the Uke MiG-29 to a Uke variant will take some time. People have no idea how much variation there is in the “same” plane when that plane has been made for 40 years. All the placards and labeling and gauges in Polish, Russian, or Ukrainian which nobody really actually used until 2014?
You don’t wanna be looking for a switch when you are busy.
All 737s look the same... from the outside. But you better believe there are differences.
Agree with everything you’ve written there.
From here on out it’s just a question of how much more destruction and loss of life will Zelensky accept.
Brandon tried to play Poland into entering the war but they pranked him and said here they are, do with them as you wish, it was THEN, Brandon had to nix his own deal.
Poland isn’t stooopid
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