[Big Red Badger]

I hate Pigeons!

[EdgeOfDarkness]

The concept of self defense and the concept of clear and present danger are separate issues. Each state and the federal government has self defense laws either in the criminal code or the code of criminal procedures. You must know what the state law is where you use self defense.

Clear and present danger is a concept that allows for the use on a nations force (civil or military when there is an external or internal threat deemed a clear and present danger by the President (as commander in chief).

Your example of the government failing to keep order is not a clear and present danger, since only the government can make that decleration.

You alwasy have the right to self defense - withing the construct od each state and the federal laws.

But——

Just because you have the right does not mean you will be absolved of a crime (no billed by a grand jury). You may still have to convince 12 people it was self defense. The obligation to prove self defense as an affirmative defense rests with you-not the prosecutor.

Under the circumstances - in a liberal jurisdiction - run away! You can’t win.

[DOC44]

“I hate Pigeons!”

I was in charge of pigeon control at my university when I was in graduate school. Scoped Crossman pump 22 and a smooth bore 22 with rat shot and traps... I still don’t like pigeons.

[Fightin Whitey]

one party of unhinged and hysterical blobs

I don't know about hysterical but they certainly look unhinged.