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To: bort; Vermont Lt; marktwain; Alberta's Child
Ping.

I'm trying to find some light through the heat here. If your not already saturated or just fed up, your thoughts, please?

2 posted on 05/10/2020 7:44:11 PM PDT by Widget Jr
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To: Widget Jr

My thoughts based on the videos, the decedent running towards armed neighbors, physically attacking them and attempting to disarm them? These are not the actions of an innocent jogger. And him going into private homes under construction supports this. Construction sites get ripped off ever day...They’ve always been big targets for thieves.


6 posted on 05/10/2020 7:54:28 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Widget Jr

This video shows him near the house under construction but the video in the house doesn’t show him doing anything but look.

BTW, to me it’s clear from the main video that he charged at the man who then defended himself. It’s a shame it happened.


18 posted on 05/10/2020 8:08:25 PM PDT by libertylover (Socialism will always look good to those who think they can get something for nothing.)
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To: Widget Jr
Under Georgia law, entering a house under construction and not taking anything is misdemeanor trespass. This lesser category of crime and not being direct witnesses mean that there was no legal right for the McMichaels to make a citizen's arrest.

Nevertheless, the charges against them of murder in the first degree seem unlikely to be sustained even if a conviction can be obtained at trial. At least there is no evidence so far that they initiated the confrontation with a prior intention to kill Arbery. Involuntary manslaughter is probably the strongest charge for which a proper conviction could be obtained.

A delay in the trial or plea deal until after the election though would be in the interests of both the state and the defendants. It would permit public emotions to cool, with pretrial discovery giving both sides the chance to fully assess the facts of the case. And, in case anyone is not fully alert to the larger context, much of the news coverage of this episode is driven by the need of the Democrats to energize the Black and liberal elements of their base.

64 posted on 05/10/2020 9:16:09 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Widget Jr

Even id the guy was looking around in that unfinished house I can still see no case for a couple guys in a truck to confront him and shoot him. They could have called the cops.


125 posted on 05/11/2020 7:43:37 AM PDT by dforest
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To: Widget Jr
I'm trying to find some light through the heat here. If your not already saturated or just fed up, your thoughts, please?

I should think the primary legal question to be answered is did the McMichaels, prior to giving chase, have reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion that Aubery, without authority, and with the intent to commit theft therein, enter or remain within a vacant building or structure?

Phrased differently, did the McMichaels, prior to giving chase, have reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion that Aubery had committed the felony of second degree burglary under GA Code § 16-7-1(c)?

The elder McMichael was an investigator for about 30 years, working for the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney’s Office. Prior to that he was a police officer for about 7 years, working for the Glynn County police.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2018/title-17/chapter-4/article-4/section-17-4-60/

2018 Georgia Code
Title 17 - Criminal Procedure
Chapter 4 - Arrest of Persons
Article 4 - Arrest by Private Persons
§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest Universal Citation: GA Code § 17-4-60 (2018)

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Were there reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion of the felony of second degree burglary? Felony second degree burglary does not require a taking, but requires an intent to commit theft.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2018/title-16/chapter-7/article-1/section-16-7-1/

2018 Georgia Code
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 7 - Damage to and Intrusion Upon Property
Article 1 - Burglary
§ 16-7-1. Burglary
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-7-1 (2018)

(c) A person commits the offense of burglary in the second degree when, without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant building, structure, railroad car, watercraft, or aircraft. A person who commits the offense of burglary in the second degree shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years. Upon the second and all subsequent convictions for burglary in the second degree, the defendant shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than eight years.

Were there reasonable and probable grounds to suspect second degree buglary, a felony?

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2018/title-17/chapter-4/article-4/section-17-4-60/

(b) A person commits the offense of criminal trespass when he or she knowingly and without authority:

(1) Enters upon the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;

Was there reasonable and probable grounds to suspect criminal trespass, a misdemeanor? Misdemeanor criminal trespass does not require intent to commit theft; any unlawful purpose suffices.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2018/title-16/chapter-3/article-2/section-16-3-23.1/

2018 Georgia Code
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 3 - Defenses to Criminal Prosecutions
Article 2 - Justification and Excuse
§ 16-3-23.1. No duty to retreat prior to use of force in self-defense
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-3-23.1 (2018)

A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2018/title-16/chapter-3/article-2/section-16-3-21/

2018 Georgia Code
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 3 - Defenses to Criminal Prosecutions
Article 2 - Justification and Excuse § 16-3-21. Use of force in defense of self or others; evidence of belief that force was necessary in murder or manslaughter prosecution
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-3-21 (2018)

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:

(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant; (2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or (3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.

(c) Any rule, regulation, or policy of any agency of the state or any ordinance, resolution, rule, regulation, or policy of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision of the state which is in conflict with this Code section shall be null, void, and of no force and effect.

(d) In a prosecution for murder or manslaughter, if a defendant raises as a defense a justification provided by subsection (a) of this Code section, the defendant, in order to establish the defendant's reasonable belief that the use of force or deadly force was immediately necessary, may be permitted to offer:

(1) Relevant evidence that the defendant had been the victim of acts of family violence or child abuse committed by the deceased, as such acts are described in Code Sections 19-13-1 and 19-15-1, respectively; and

(2) Relevant expert testimony regarding the condition of the mind of the defendant at the time of the offense, including those relevant facts and circumstances relating to the family violence or child abuse that are the bases of the expert's opinion.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2018/title-16/chapter-3/article-2/section-16-3-24.2/

2018 Georgia Code
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 3 - Defenses to Criminal Prosecutions
Article 2 - Justification and Excuse
§ 16-3-24.2. Immunity from prosecution; exception
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-3-24.2 (2018)

A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, 16-3-23, 16-3-23.1, or 16-3-24 shall be immune from criminal prosecution therefor unless in the use of deadly force, such person utilizes a weapon the carrying or possession of which is unlawful by such person under Part 2 of Article 4 of Chapter 11 of this title.


157 posted on 05/11/2020 8:33:53 AM PDT by woodpusher
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To: Widget Jr
I'm trying to find some light through the heat here. If your not already saturated or just fed up, your thoughts, please?

It seems to support the fact that Arbrey was killed unnecessarily. He was looking through a house under construction. Was that illegal? Perhaps, but if so then the police would be locking up tens of thousands of people. I've walked through construction sites myself, out of curiosity and wanting to see how they laid things out. The video says that nothing was reported stolen at the site so he didn't steal anything. There was no reason to stop him, much less shoot him.

167 posted on 05/11/2020 9:42:40 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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