Posted on 03/12/2018 10:27:53 PM PDT by FrankLea
The reason for the 2nd Amendment was written was to give the citizen Military grade weapons to protect themselves from the Government. In 1776 the Military grade weapons was a Mussel loader now it is a fully automatic weapon. Thomas Jefferson said, "an Armed man is a Citizen, an unarmed man is a subject." This country was founded on the premise that all citizens are Sovereign.
I agree full auto has no place in the civilian world. They are designed to be used on fast moving vehicles or aircraft to shoot the enemy. They are also good for laying down cover fire so your soldiers can get into a better position to assault the enemy. It will also kill large numbers of people in a crowd. For civilians is waste too much ammo and you have no idea where most of the bullets are going. Semi-auto is good. Select fire puts the bullets where you want them. I used to own a Ruger 10-22 rifle; it was a semi-automatic weapon with a variety of clips. Anywhere from 10 to 50 rounds. Given this; the Ruger 10-22 carbine is considered an Assault weapon in the state of New Jersey. I am certain it has a similar classification in other states. I agree it is a lethal weapon.
My question is; What designates a weapon as an assault weapon? All firearms: Pistols, Rifles, Carbines, Shotguns are designed to Kill. Pistols are designed to kill people. Many states outlaw pistols for hunting. It does not matter if it is mussel loader, Breach loader single shot, semi or full auto all firearms are all designed to kill. By that reckoning, all firearms are assault weapons.
The mussel loaders of the Revolution were the military weapons of the day. In my opinion from reading the Federalist Papers; the argument that the 2nd amendment only pertains to those type of weapons is flawed as those were the high tech military weapons of that time. In the civil war, breech loader riffles were developed. Repeating Lever and bolt action rifles came soon after. Black powder cap and ball pistols were refitted to use cartridges. The carbine and semi-auto and full auto weapons came a short time later. The founding fathers were adamant in the Federalist Papers that an armed society will keep the government in fear of the people; not the people in fear of the government. I believe if we were able to ask the founding fathers do you think it is a good idea that the people of today to have military grade weapons to defend themselves from the government they would to a man say “Yes.”
As for banning all firearms; this will never work. Anyone who wants to can make a zip gun in the privacy of their home with hand tools and supplies from a hardware store. It will take a while and may not be the best weapon. Then again, firearms started out as handcrafted weapons of exceptional quality. A person in a basic machine shop can manufacturer a pistol, rifle or shotgun in a short amount of time. 3D printers can print a firearm in a few hours. A man in Bulgaria created a key fob gun for personal protection. It is a very small weapon that shoots 22 or 38 caliber bullets. It has a short range of a few feet and fits between 2 fingers. It can be made in a machine shop in less than an hour.
Whatever laws the government passes someone will find a way around it. If the government bans smokeless powder used in the cartridges; someone with a high school level chemistry class education can make a suitable substitute. If all firearms are banned and confiscated then murderous people will find different ways to cause mayhem. Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma City bomber used a truck, fertilizer, and diesel fuel for domestic terrorism.
Guns are not the problem. There is no simple panacea cure for the violence in this country. I will be the first to say I do not have all of the answers on how to fix this huge problem in our country. Any of the simple answers have been put forth and tried. Many have failed. I do believe we need to get back to a Nuclear family for the majority of the people in the country. This will help stabilize many communities. A strong family was the basis of our country for most of its history. But this is a topic for another day.
As always I look forward to the discussion on my views. These are my views and I believe they are for the most part correct. If you have an opposing view I desire a spirited conversation.
With a side of clams and linguini
“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined...”
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823
“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
“To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787
“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
“...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone...”
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783
“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803
“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.”
- Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775
“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
“What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.”
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789
“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787
“If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28
“[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.”
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quotations-founding-fathers
I think it was Washington who said it was important for people to have comparable weapons to what a prospective enemy might have.
Is this a trick question?
The above is a link to a site that I believe is fairly accurate. Cannon on ships was almost 15,000 private, and 1200 government.
I was reading about the “Powder House Agreement” or some such. The Brits attempted a raid on a town's powder house about 6 months before Lexington, but were turned away by 2,000 (?) armed citizens. So the town/county removed the “British” leaders of the militia and turned the militia under local control. Then they voted in those same leaders!
They also set up guns and ammo for those men in the county that couldn't afford them - so yes - the government was arming the people. It also set up monthly(?) training. The Founding Fathers were working down in Philadelphia, and wrote a letter to all of the colonies that the colonies should provide them with any support they could.
This idea of having enough of the right weapons in the hands of the locals, and the training, is what “a well-regulated militia” means. Well functioning, in good working (trained) order and organized.
That is were we are hosed today - in the organization of individuals. It would take quite awhile for us to become a force to be reckoned with I think if the government decides to turn on us, and starts confiscating guns.
“Well - that was just that guy in Massachusetts with a 100-round magazine for each of his 20 rifles, and a couple of bump stocks. Those are all illegal - the guy must have been a nut-case.”
I think that I’ve read where potato guns are illegal in some places.
Thank you.
Weren’t pretty much all weapons military weapons when the founders were, er, founding? Which makes the question, oh I don’t know, silly?
“I will be the first to say I do not have all of the answers on how to fix this huge problem in our country”
Not one of these dumb asses have any idea why we have these types of killings these days. They cant connect the dots at all.
Single mothers/fathers, trying to raise up kids and while at work, the kids are running loose doing what the hell ever they want. Kids are out running wild after hours at night.
Then, letting somebody else raise the kids. No respect is taught at all. never a good swift wack cross the backside to correct them when they run wild.
Hell, they drop those kids at childbirth like a animal and walk away.
No Sunday school, no dinner around the table after work and school, everybody sits and stares at a video game or smart phone. Dont talk to each other except grunt at each other once in a while. WTH could go wrong?
Bookmark.
Yes. In certain cases the laws demanded they have them.
Bang! for later.
The whole reason was for citizens to be able to fight off a tyranical government so it stands to reason that citizens should have the exact same weapons as the military.
The whole reason was for citizens to be able to fight off a tyranical government so it stands to reason that citizens should have the exact same weapons as the military.
After reading a couple of sentences I don't even know what his point is.
Not one of these dumb asses have any idea why we have these types of killings these days. They cant connect the dots at all.
Actually, rifles were primarily strictly for hunting.
Rifles took too much skill and time to load for use in the combat tactics of the time.
Washington was an early user of Guerilla tactics and the use of snipers. But in the day, this was considered ungentlemanly. Firing from cover was cowardly.
But Washington had little choice being out gunned and out manned and fighting an enemy with far greater financial resources.
“” “” Actually, rifles were primarily strictly for hunting.
Rifles took too much skill and time to load for use in the combat tactics of the time.”” “”
These were in place since 18th century but due to cost and complexity weren’t practical as infantry weapons.
Rifles were first used en-masse in 1850s during Crimean War.
See Militia Act I and II...
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