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Billy The Kid -- Did He Kill 21 Men?
The American Cowboy Chronicles ^
| April 28, 2017
| Tom Correa
Posted on 04/30/2017 8:45:19 PM PDT by Texas Fossil
A letter from a reader asks, "Is the myth about Billy the Kid killing 21 men true or not?" The legends says he killed one man for each of year of his life. He also wants to know when and where he was born because he's read a couple of different versions.
First, let's take on when and where William Henry Bonney, also known as "Billy the Kid," was born. To my knowledge, people can guess all they want but no one has proof of when or where he was born. That's the bottom line on that.
The Authentic Life of Billy, the Kid is a biography and supposed first-hand account written by Pat Garrett with the assistance of ghostwriter Marshall Ashmun "Ash" Upson. In that book, Garrett and Upson give the date of the Kid's birth as November 23th, 1859, and say it he was born in New York City.
The problem is that though this information has been accepted as the actual birth date and place for Billy the Kid, no one has any proof as to when or where he was born. That means there is no record of the month, the day or even the year. So then, if I'm right in that there is no record, then there are some of us who want to know where that date came from? And really, how did Garrett and Upson know where since they did not really know the Kid?
One writer has said that Marshall Ashmun "Ash" Upson made up the year and simply gave Billy the Kid the same birth date as his own which is November 23rd. I don't know if that's true, but it does appear pretty fishy since no one can find a record of birth anywhere for the Kid. And yes, Upson was born on November 23rd.
As for the year, from what I can see, it's all speculation as to whether or not he was born in 1859. As far as some are concerned, since some have found witnesses that say that the Kid was actually 17 during the Lincoln County War in early 1878, then that means the Kid may have been born in 1860 or 1861.
Fact is, his the date of his birth remains a complete mystery. Yes, the same as with whether he was born in New York or Indiana or what have you. No one can say because there is no record of his date or place of birth.
Now as for how many men did he kill?
To my knowledge, the myth that he killed 21 men is not true. Yes, as for the killings that we absolutely know are attributed to Billy the Kid, that number is 4. We know that he killed Frank Cahill, Joe Grant, James W. Bell and Bob Olinger.
We know that he and other gunmen were involved in the deaths of Billy Morton, Frank Baker, William McCloskey, William Brady, and George Hindman. But even though that's the case, we do not know if he was the shooter or if it were one of the others whose bullet or bullets may have killed those men.
The problem here is no different than the myths of Doc Holliday, Wyatt Earp, Wild Bill Hickok, King Fisher, Ben Thompson, Luke Short and many others. A great number of legends have killings attributed to them that they simply did not do. In many cases, someone else did the killing and they were credited for it. In other cases, they themselves built up their legends by coming up with tall tales about people they fought and won, and struggles they overcame.
It is like not having witnesses to John Wesley Hardin's claim that he drew down on Wild Bill Hickok and that Hickok was fine with that. That was Hardin's claim from inside prison, and it is completely fabricated. If it isn't than someone should produce a witness, but there isn't.
In the case of Billy the Kid, it is believed that Deputy James Carlyle was mistakenly shot and killed by his own posse who they thought was Billy the Kid. And yes, it was shown later that the posse blamed the killing on the Kid out of convenience instead of owing up to a mistaken and friendly-fire. Any evidence that points to the Kid has been shown to be circumstantial evidence.
Billy the Kid has been blamed for killing Buckshot Roberts, but it was Charlie Bowdre killed Roberts. The Kid was credited with killing Charlie Crawford, but his killer was Fernando Herrera who is said to have shot Crawford as he rode towards town to join Peppin's posse during the siege at McSween's house.
Billy the Kid gets credit for the killing of Robert Beckwith, but no one really knows who's bullet killed Beckwith. And as for killing Morris Bernsteinring, he was killed by Atanacio Martinez and not the Kid.
So while we can say that he participated in five shootings, it's a lot more accurate to credit Billy the Kid killing the four men that we absolutely know he killed. And that, well that's no where near 21.
And yes, that's just the way I see it.
Tom Correa
TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: authentic; billythekid; fakenews; legend; real
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How many men did Billy the Kid kill?
Well, guess we will never know.
Should this bother us? Not sure. At this point it is really not that big a thing. But with newspaper reporting in the 1800's so distorted, should we really think our "Fake News" is that new?
Well, in some ways it is. Back in the 1800's it was done to sell newspapers. Now it is done to promote an agenda.
Is that any different? Well, yes it is. Slimy reporting to sell papers comes from the public who consume the lies. Now, the Slimy reporting is paid for those who promote the agenda, a relatively small number of people.
So, the whole system is corrupted by distorted reporting today. It is on a whole other scale of offense.
To: Texas Fossil
What?
They had fake news in 1880 too?
2
posted on
04/30/2017 9:17:12 PM PDT
by
smokingfrog
( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
To: Texas Fossil
3
posted on
04/30/2017 9:25:52 PM PDT
by
Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
(Don't touch that thing Don't let anybody touch that thing!I'm a Doctor and I won't touch that thing!)
To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
4
posted on
04/30/2017 9:38:45 PM PDT
by
Bob434
To: Texas Fossil
Well, he DID NOT count Mexicans and Indians!
5
posted on
04/30/2017 9:48:08 PM PDT
by
Ruy Dias de Bivar
(That's my story and I'm sticking to it!)
To: Texas Fossil
Not as many as John Wesley Hardin, Clay Allison or Killin Jim Miller, who BTW, was lynched April 19th 1909.
Of those three, Allison, was said to have been a maniac. Pure nuts.
Not that the others were not.
6
posted on
04/30/2017 9:59:49 PM PDT
by
crz
To: crz
Long and short? They were certainly built up as being bigger than they were in real life.
7
posted on
04/30/2017 10:01:35 PM PDT
by
Texas Fossil
((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
To: smokingfrog
Eastern Tabloid news. smile
8
posted on
04/30/2017 10:02:08 PM PDT
by
Texas Fossil
((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
This probably was much over rated too.
9
posted on
04/30/2017 10:02:56 PM PDT
by
Texas Fossil
((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
To: Texas Fossil
Well what is the straight scoop on Big Irving?
10
posted on
04/30/2017 10:03:33 PM PDT
by
MrEdd
(MrEdd)
To: MrEdd
I don’t even know who he was. But I bet my friend Tom does.
This is what he writes about. And he is pretty knowledgeable.
At times he writes about current events too.
But most of the time he writes about Western and Indian history. And he is good at it.
There is a big archive of stuff, index is on the right margin of the page at the link.
I think there is an email function on the page. If not, I do have his email somewhere.
Sorry I cannot answer your question.
11
posted on
04/30/2017 10:09:03 PM PDT
by
Texas Fossil
((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
To: Texas Fossil
12
posted on
04/30/2017 10:13:48 PM PDT
by
MrEdd
(MrEdd)
To: MrEdd
13
posted on
04/30/2017 10:15:55 PM PDT
by
Texas Fossil
((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
To: Texas Fossil
They can all talk as much as they want, but the most killings ever was the Tewksbury-Graham feud in the Pleasant Valley of AZ.
That one went on for a long while and the estimates were anywhere of 35 to 50 killed. It even involved Tom Horn. That feud spread out to include nearly all of northern AZ. They call it the AZ wars around Flagstaff.
To this day people tell me that feud is going on, except there isnt any killings anymore.
And they thought the Hatfield-McCoy feud was bad?
14
posted on
04/30/2017 10:18:01 PM PDT
by
crz
To: MrEdd
I’ve got to get some rest. Sorry.
Wife has doctors appointment early tomorrow.
Have a good night.
15
posted on
04/30/2017 10:18:39 PM PDT
by
Texas Fossil
((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
To: crz
Does that explain what is happening in the Middle East?
smile
16
posted on
04/30/2017 10:20:07 PM PDT
by
Texas Fossil
((Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!))
To: Texas Fossil
You do know, that the picture you choose to post about "Billy the Kid," is a true "reverse" of any picture's taken with type of camera. I believe that type of camera is called a {tintype} Billy was right handed, not left handed.
Put this under the For what it's worth, and that's not much at all. :-)
17
posted on
04/30/2017 10:30:33 PM PDT
by
Stanwood_Dave
("Testilying." Cop's don't lie, they just Testily{ing} as taught in their respected Police Academy.)
To: Texas Fossil
Well, if that is a feud, then that would put the AZ wars to shame.
18
posted on
04/30/2017 11:24:47 PM PDT
by
crz
To: crz; Pelham; Mr. Mojo
Hardin was steely and a crack shot
The Kid shot folks often in remote areas of central New Mexico so who knows
I know this
Pat Garrett got what was coming to him same as Charlie Ford did
19
posted on
04/30/2017 11:48:32 PM PDT
by
wardaddy
(Multiculturalism: Everyone wants to inhabit the world of white men with no white men in it)
To: crz
They can all talk as much as they want, but the most killings ever was the Tewksbury-Graham feud in the Pleasant Valley of AZ.The Pleasant Valley War is mentioned in the novel, Collateral Crimes, as Young, Arizona is one of the settings for the story, which also involves ATF gun running similar to Fast and Furious, which is also mentioned.
"Collateral Crimes is the best crime thriller Ive read in years."
-Marshall Trimble, Arizona State Historian
20
posted on
05/01/2017 1:04:52 AM PDT
by
Jeff Chandler
(Everywhere is freaks and hairies Dykes and fairies Tell me where is sanity?)
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