Posted on 03/27/2017 2:22:02 PM PDT by Thalean
"...there are 7.89 million Muslims in Germany, all immigrants (1st, 2nd, or rarely 3rd) or refugees—14.7% of Germany’s population ages 32 and under is Muslim...
...according to the CIA World Factbook, there are 2,986,743 in Germany at the end of 2016...
More troubling is the fact that when I looked at their archived page, I found that their website said in 2010 that there were 3,044,370 Muslims in Germany—the percentage of population (3.7% did not change), although the population estimates did.
So according to this US government source, we are led to believe that there are fewer Muslims in Germany now than 6 years ago—despite the fact that roughly 200,000 immigrate to Germany (legally) per year..."
(Excerpt) Read more at nationaleconomicseditorial.com ...
If Germans knew the true extent of Islamic immigration, they are afraid that many more would turn to the anti-immigrant nationalistic parties.
The same thing is done here in America when it comes to illegal immigrants: the number has been stuck at 11 million for a decade.
What would Hitler Do ?
They will reproduce at 4 times the rate of indigenous Germans. Their numbers will increase exponentially.
They will never assimilate.
Black September
Munich Olympics ‘72
Red Army Faction ‘73-90’s
All had bases in Germany and used $$ sent from the USA to Palestine to fund their terrorism.
Weapons were bought in North Korea, Jordan and trained in Jordan.
This has been going on since the 60’s and will continue unless Germany changes direction.
Sometimes you’re not funny.
Didn’t Mohamed Atta also come from Germany?
Nearly 50% of Californians are Latino.
Heil Allah
7 out of 7 Germans under the age of 32 are German.
However, I can believe that 1 out of 7 people under the age of 32 living in Germany right now are islamist infiltrators.
Agreed. They have 8 kids on average: will breed out Germans in the space of decades.
It will become a second Lebanon unless something changes.
The only way Germany can be saved is via Russia, Poland, and Hungary. They will have to pick their poison. As far as I’m concerned I used to think German engineering was something special, but how can that be with a populace so stupid. To me “German Engineering” has become an oxy moron.
IIRC, the muslims were his allies during WWII
True. They both hated the Jews.
I won’t call the story false, but it has several pieces which aren’t seen in the light.
1. A German university study from two years ago looked at generational reproduction numbers of migrants coming into Germany. So they expected to find that it was three or more kids from the second and third generations in Germany. No, the general number stayed at 2 kids per family, when you went to the 2nd and 3rd generation. Reason? Lot of discussion but cost of living, taxation, and significant understanding of birth control all played major roles. You could also include the fact that Turkish women (part of the big picture) got career-motivated and a fair number weren’t going to be stay-at-home moms.
2. For the past twenty years, the normal immigration number into Germany stood at roughly 250,000 per year. It should be noted that this included Russians, Africans, Brazilians, Japanese, etc...as well as those from the Middle East. There are only two periods where the numbers changed (the Balkans War and the Syrian Civil War). 2016, the number went back down to 300,000 and generally, it appears it’ll stay near 300,000 for 2017. From the Balkans War period, they hit near 850,000 in one single year....it’s also noted that vast majority didn’t stay, and left Germany when peace returned to the Balkans. Some expect the Iraqis and Syrians will do the same when ISIS is beaten.
3. I’ve seen a university study, a foundation study, and a gov’t study....all conclude that the 82-million population of Germany will go within twenty years to 65-to-70 million...the chief disagreement among the three is whether it’s closer to 65 million or 70 million. But they all agree, with the 1.4 birth-rate....you can’t maintain the country, and it’s programs.
If you drive around Germany, especially the rural areas...banks, groceries, and drug stores are closing. You have small communities which had 1,000 residents back in 1985, and today have 500 residents. Some small towns of 2,000 people used have a bank....today, all they have is a ATM machine. Larger urbanized cities are maintaining their size and growing to some degree....only because the rural towns have no jobs and no one is staying. These immigrants coming into Germany? They only want to live around large urbanized communities. None of this is helping small towns.
The only way that a large family...seven or eight kids can occur outside of welfare is if one of the parents has a professional skill and makes real money. From these new immigrants groups, you just aren’t going to find people with those skills or degrees. Once you go and try to find a four bedroom apartment, and the sticker-shock hits you....along with lack of such places generally existing, you end up on a birth-control system. Go try to find a place for your wife and five kids in the Frankfurt area...it’s just not going to happen unless you live 30 to 50 miles outside of town.
I’m not going to blast the guy who wrote the article, but there’s a certain reality to the whole landscape in Germany. Trying to get the numbers to tell one particular side of the story....misses a lot of the picture.
All fair comments & a well-reasoned reply. But I disagree with your main points. Here’s why:
1. I don’t recall the birth rate being particularly important to the article, which focused on the current Muslim population of Germany, not the future population. But fair enough, although I question your data: from what I’ve read (albeit from France) is that 3rd generation Muslim immigrants have an average family size of 6 (so 4 children).
On another note, given that 80% of Germany’s Muslim population receives some form of government handout, therefore I don’t think that economics is the operative issue: they’re not like Westerners, economics don’t really factor into whether or not they’re having children.
Also, remember that Turks who’ve been there for 3 generations were brought up in the secular Turkey, not the current highly Islamic climate—they never had big families like the current crop. Also remember that Turks have a relatively low birth rate compared to the rest of the Islamic world (and always have). So I think you’re comparing apples to oranges in a lot of respects: you’re comparing generations of secular Turks with the new immigrants from highly Islamic places like Syria and Afghanistan. It’s a false comparison, to be frank.
2. That is the number of legal immigrants. It doesn’t include refugees & asylum-seekers, nor illegal migrants. For example, there are 3 million Poles living in Germany right now, all of which arrived via freedom of movement rights under the EU, and don’t figure into that calculation. If you include JUST the Poles, the that number increases by 60% on average. It says nothing of the number of Spaniards & Romanians etc. living & working in Germany.
3. Agreed, the population is declining naturally. But I don’t think that’s a bad thing: a shrinking population means (i) more incentive to invest in technology & automation and (ii) a higher standard of living for the average person who’s inherited the wealth & infrastructure of a much larger society. We’ve seen it time and time again: the period after the Black Death in the 1350s, for example, was Europe’s richest per capita period until the enlightenment; it also ushered in the Renaissance. Or again, Britain’s tiny population during the Industrial Revolution.
Also, I don’t think flooding the country with 3rd world people is the solution: people aren’t fungible goods, you can’t just replace a German with a Syrian and expect the society to continue. For example, if everyone in Mexico moved to the US & all the people in the US died off in 40 years, this wouldn’t be the US anymore, it’d be Mexico-North. A nation isn’t the land or the government, it’s the people—change the people, change the nation. Beyond that, Japan’s had a shrinking population for quite a while, and yet the GDP per capita has continued to increase unabated: the size of an economy isn’t a reflection of its prosperity or equity.
Definitely agree with you regarding small towns. Parallels America in that respect.
Although, again, regarding the birth rates: these people don’t think like Westerners. They don’t have children because they want them, or because they can afford them: they do it because it’s the will of Allah. They do it because they believe they must.
Also, the fact that they get welfare enables them to do it (rather comfortably, in some cases), so your point there is moot. Recall that 80% of Muslims get welfare in Germany, and it hasn’t stopped them from having kids. Same in France. Same in the Netherlands. etc. And remember, the more of them there are, the more will keep voting for more welfare: it’s parasitic. Also, because most of them live in isolated areas (they self-segregate), they don’t integrate, and they don’t adopt Western norms (which include using birth control and having few children).
I was actually just in Britain, Germany & France. I’ll tell you what: Muslims don’t integrate. You probably can’t image what it’s like without going there, it’s like you cross a street and it’s a totally different country, there is 0 mixing. Because of that, they preserve their 3rd world culture wholesale, except now they are able to breed without working. That’s why radicalization rates are so high in Europe—lots of spare time, a feeling of isolation (of their own doing, no less), and also resentment.
That all being said, I do think that there are many more Muslims in Germany than the 4 million they want us to believe (which was why I posted the article in the first place).
Good discussion though. If I’ve misrepresented anything you said, correct me & we can go from there.
Some decent points.
Some German study in 2015 put the ‘guessed’ range of Muslims in the country at around 4.7 million, and there were around 1.1 million immigrants to arrive in 2015 (figure 70-percent were Muslim), so the present number ought to be near 5.5 million.
There is a wide array of immigrants and migrants. When you inject the Russians, Poles, Greeks, Yugoslav, etc groups into the discussion....it probably adds up to three million. Back in 2009....before this migrant era started up, the German statistics agency sat down and analyzed everyone of an ethnic origin ‘not German’, and came to quote that 20-percent of the nation (figure 16 million) were not German.
Two years ago, I helped an American searching out his original town in Germany. He descended from a Hessen soldier who stayed in America after the Revolutionary War. So I did some walking around, and then came back to his name....it was a bit odd. Typically not German. Finally, I came to conclude that there was generally only one region in Europe where the name came from originally...south part of Slovenia. There were no facts to work from, but it appears that after the 30-Years War and plague era (after 1650), with German population decimated in the central region, his family must have relocated into Hessen. So, as much as the guy wanted to connect back to his “root” in Germany....his real roots were in Slovenia. If you dig into this topic, maybe one-third of all Germans aren’t pure Germanic nature. They simply came, and adapted.
Presently, with the current crew...this adaption or integration business is the question mark. You didnt have cable-TV, internet, or foreign language newspapers readily available on the streets of Germany in the past. Today, you can watch nightly news from Tunis, or read the latest Wall Street Journal.
The cherry on this cake, which I will end this discussion with is this...the German statistics folks (ever clever and analyzing things), noted in the last two or three years, that for the decade prior, 1.5 million Germans packed up and left the country.
They do a TV show here over the Germans that leave. Some stay within Europe (probably 200,000 of the group have gone to Spain). Some head off to Canada, the US or Australia. Some even go to Iceland.
If you use the birth-rate business and those leaving (usually degreed or with a craft), then there’s a question mark on the horizon of Germany by 2100. The plague and 30-Years War did a pretty good job on decimating the population, but in this case...just birth control and preferring to live elsewhere are driving the current situation.
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