[BroJoeK]

jeffersondem: "So we all agree, and 'nearly all of 1861 Unionists' agreed, states have the right to secede.
I did not know this."

As a devoted pro-Confederate propagandist, you are not required or expected to know any real history, so naturally, you totally misunderstand what was happening.

In fact, our Founders were 100% clear and consistent about the subject of "disunion", as James Madison spelled out.
disunion was acceptable under two conditions:

1. "Mutual consent", such as the 1788 dissolution of the old Articles of Confederation and their replacement by the new US Constitution.

2. "Necessity", such as caused by oppression or usurpations like those the Founders experienced in 1776.

Absent either mutual consent or necessity, our Founders considered secession to be "at pleasure", which was not constitutional or lawful, but very close to rebellion, for which they gave no approval.

[jeffersondem]

“Absent either mutual consent or necessity, our Founders considered secession to be “at pleasure”, which was not constitutional or lawful, but very close to rebellion, for which they gave no approval.”

But that was not the case in 1861. Read what a leading historian has found: “. . . nearly all 1861 Unionists (including Lincoln) believed that had the Deep South Fire Eaters contented themselves with declaring secession and setting up a Confederacy, the Union could not use force to stop them.”