Hidden .455 Treasures of India

Gun Watch ^ | 15 February, 2015 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

I was doing research on the new India Nidar revolver being produced at the Ishapore Rifle Factory, when I came across this striking image of mostly .455 revolvers from a locker in some Indian government facility.

The person who took the picture had access to the stocks of firearms for legitimate purposes, and did nothing illegal.  They answered a question on an India firearms forum.  I found the answer to be intriguing. From indiansforguns.com:

As regards other revolvers, there are enormous stocks of the old .455s which was the standard before the .380/200.

They are more or less retired and most are locked away to die slowly.. occasionally they make an appearance when the situation demands so . While a few were purchased directly for police use, most of those in the various state police inventories appear to have been inherited from the army even before independence. Obviously, most would be Webley&Scott Mk IVs and VIs and magnificent beasts they are. Most MkVIs bear almost no markings and are somewhat coarsely finished, probably indicating war time (WWI) production runs. There are also many Colt and S&W New-Service revolvers marked .455 ELEY. Also to my surprise I dug out a few specimens of Webley RIC(Royal Irish Constabulary) No1 DA revolvers in .476, and the Webley Fosbery .455!! Why, a Webley MkIII small frame with safety latch in .38 (perhaps 380) appeared out of the pile!! I can post pictures if required.

In the picture there are 5 MK VIs, 3 MK IVs,  1 MK III in .38, 1 RIC in .476, a Webley Fosberry in .455 and a Colt New Service in .455 Eley.

A lovely collection, just sitting in an India arsenal.  The poster indicates that there are "enormous stocks" of .455 revolvers scattered about India in government hands.

I think back to the days when Springfield trapdoors went for a few dollars, when you could buy surplus Krags, and most of the best (and worst) of the worlds arsenals ended up in the United States, because the United States had more freedom than anywhere else.  These things happen in surges.

The last surge we had was when the SKS rifles, the CZ 52 rifles and pistols, the Makarovs, the Tokarevs, and many, many others became available in the 90's.  I bought a lot, and sold most of them.

There will be other surges.  Many Ishapore .308 rifles were purchased from India and imported to the United States in the last one.   It takes some genius to figure out the right buttons to push to show how an Indian bureaucracy can make some money by trading these antique and obsolete revolvers for cash, or maybe 10 to 1 for state of the art new Glocks?

When that undiscovered genius succeeds, I hope that he remembers the small contribution I have made to his success.  I would like something in good working condition, maybe a .476 RIC, or a Webley MK I, II, or III.  I already have a couple of MK VIs.  I would prefer a pre 1898, so no FFL would be necessary.  I would not turn down a WG, even if I had to dig up a friendly FFL!

I suspect many thousands of .455s are out there.  India is huge.  The British were there since before the revolver was developed.  Who knows what treasures are hidden in the storage lockers of the bureucracy that inherited the original "red tape"?

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[marktwain]

There must be someone in the Indian government who has the authority to rid his country of these evil guns, while converting old, obsolete, antique revolvers into cash.

[Fido969]

I can’t get that link to work, but the Webley .455 “mankiller” round is a neat relic. Plan to do some reloading, because new .455 is about a buck-plus a round.

Many of those break-open revolvers were surplused into the US in the 1960s, and the cylinders shaved in the back to take a .45 ACP held in place be “half-moon” clips.

[katana]

The way things are going back in Dear Old Blighty perhaps there are Brits who wouldn’t mind it if a few hundred or thousand of these found their way home. Dig up some eighty year old ammunition, and Bob’s yer uncle!

[jumpingcholla34]

Dear India:

I'll take one Royal Enfield sidecar rig, please. Just fill the sidecar with revolvers.

[marktwain]

“I can’t get that link to work, but the Webley .455 “mankiller” round is a neat relic. Plan to do some reloading, because new .455 is about a buck-plus a round.”

Which link are you referring to?

The Gun Watch link worked, last I tried it.

[elcid1970]

I’ve got a Webley Mk VI with the shaved cylinder. Back before I was 18 or had enough money these went for $14.95 or so. I saw them in fishing tackle boxes & the owners called it the “boat anchor”. Gone up a lot since then.

The cartridge manual says .45 ACP is hotter than .455 Webley. Some reload .45 ACP with reduced charge for the old Mk VI.

Sure do like the Webley-Fosbery in that photo.

[Little Ray]

I’d love to have a Webley .455!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Thirty five years ago, I bought a .445 S&W, covered with British proof marks, that had been converted to .45 Long Colt. Sights were off and it shot very low, but with a WONDERSIGHT and a reworking of the front sight it shoots great and puts a BIG hole in the target.
I’ve read, many years ago, that Egypt still has lots of Remington .45 revolvers in it’s arsenal. It is surprising what can be found hidden in foreign lands.

Remember when they found an arsenal full of old Snider and Enfield single shot rifles in Nepal a few years back, and who cannot cry when they remember that storage shed burned that was full of original Thompson machine guns!

Ah for the days when you could get an original Remington Rolling Block rifle for a few bucks, then order a Numrich Arms conversion kit. Not any more!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Because of the lack of .455 ammo you can machine down the rear of the cylinder and ream the chambers to use .45ACP in a half moon clip, or auto rim ammo or .45 Long Colt for the Colt and S&W revolvers I believe the British pistols have too short a cylinder for .45 Long Colt but can be converted to .45ACP and auto rim.

I believe Auto Rim is no longer made, but I saw lots of new brass at my last gun show.

[marktwain]

Some of the .455 revolvers will work with shortened .45 long Colt brass. On some, the rims will need to be thinned.

I believe .455 brass can be found. .455 loaded ammo may be occasionally available.

[Farmer Dean]

I think Remington does a run of auto rim brass every few years.I bought a thousand of them for my M1955 S&W a couple years ago.

[Parley Baer]

I have a Webley that has been modified to take the 45ACP rounds.

[archy]

I believe .455 brass can be found.

It can; Midway offers the Bertram Brass version.

Note though that .455 Eley and .455 Webley are not the same thing. If it's Eley brass you're after, you can reduce the rim on Remington .45 AutoRim cases.

.455 loaded ammo may be occasionally available.

Indeed. Fiocchi makes it, and Midway retails it.

And as with all such things, when in doubt, try The Old Western Scrounger.