Trump is Right, America Doesn’t Win Wars Anymore

US Defense Watch ^ | February 16 2016 | Ray Starmann

[pboyington]

JOE SCARBOROUGH: “Have we wasted too much money over the past decade fighting wars? Has that been one of the biggest?”–

Trump – “Well, I’ll tell you what, I don’t mind fighting, but you have got to win and number one, we don’t win wars, we just fight, we just fight. It’s like a big — like you’re vomiting, just fight, fight, fight. We don’t win anything. I mean, if you’re going to fight, you win and you get back to rebuilding the country. We don’t win. It’s really a terrible thing. I mean, our country used to win all the time. We don’t win at all anymore.”

Flashback to the immortal words of General George S. Patton, Jr…

“Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That’s why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.”

Patton died months after the conclusion of hostilities in Europe, a death that was in itself the subject of much controversy. What would old Blood and Guts think of the conduct of US wars since World War II? In fact, what would old Blood and Guts think of the US military today?

When one thinks of the blood, sweat, courage and ultimate sacrifices that Americans have made in conflicts from Korea to Afghanistan, it is almost unfathomable. As Douglas MacArthur stated about the travails of the American soldier (and US servicemen in all branches), they have “drained deep the chalice of courage.”

That being said, since the Korean War, which was labeled a Police Action, the United States of America, the greatest country on earth is 1 for 5, with our only victory being in the Gulf War in 1991.

Korea – The US and UN forces fought the North Koreans and the Chinese to a standstill for three years on the Korean Peninsula from 1950 to 1953. In command of all UN forces, General MacArthur sought to wage full scale war against the Chinese and North Koreans, including possible use of atomic weapons. MacArthur was eventually relieved by President Truman who consistently tied MacArthur’s hands out of fear that any rash actions might somehow trigger World War III. The result: 36,000 Americans killed in action and a cease fire still in place today. The war was a proverbial draw.

Vietnam – With President Kennedy’s death, LBJ and the Pentagon had a green light to move into Vietnam. US involvement in Vietnam lasted from 1959 to 1975. We had first entered Southeast Asia under the guise of halting the spread of communism and in fear of the Domino Theory. The war soon became a mismanaged fiasco of incrementalization, presidential micro-managing of bombing targets and ridiculous rules of engagement. While the US lost the will to fight and sued for peace, the US military never lost one major skirmish, firefight or battle in the war. If the nation would have had the resolve, we could have won that war in a matter of months. Instead, the war dragged on with vacillating strategies, a decline in American prestige worldwide and 58,000 deaths.

Gulf War I – Why was the 1991 Gulf War a success when the other wars since WWII haven’t been? Gulf War I was a bright shining moment in US history where everything came together towards victory. The US military was well trained and superbly motivated and well-equipped. The commander in chief, Bush 41, had served in WWII and knew how to manage without tying the hands of the military. More importantly, the military’s senior leaders had all served in Vietnam and all vowed to never fight a war with one hand tied behind their backs. They had guts and cared about the troops. The US military threw everything they had into the fight and won quickly in 44 days of bombing and 100 Hours of a blazing desert blitzkrieg that resulted in an overwhelming victory that Americans would soon harken back to after the second Iraq War began.

Iraq – Was the Iraq War a tie or a loss; what was it? It certainly wasn’t a true victory. While we did vanquish Saddam’s Army during the initial invasion, the US became engulfed in a gradual insurgency with various factions that all had one underlying goal – kill Americans and make us leave the country. Yes, we toppled Saddam, but that unleashed a power vacuum in the country that led to the rise of ISIS and the strengthening of Iran. Whether there were WMD’s still left in Iraq by 2003 will be the subject of debate for centuries. At the end of the day, the invasion of Iraq wasn’t a strategic necessity. Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11. Furthermore, the invasion force was too small and while it was sufficient to destroy the Iraqi Armed Forces, it wasn’t big enough to secure the country. The butcher’s bill for conquering Iraq and its vast oil fields: 4,800 U.S. soldiers killed and over 33,000 seriously wounded, many with brain injuries. Estimates of Iraqi dead run from 112,000 to over one million. The Pentagon knows, but won’t release the figures.

Afghanistan – “The War in Afghanistan is the period in which the United States invaded Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks. Supported initially by close allies, they were later joined by NATO beginning in 2003. It followed the Afghan Civil War’s 1996–2001 phase. Its public aims were to dismantle al-Qaeda and to deny it a safe base of operations in Afghanistan by removing the Taliban from power. Key allies, including the United Kingdom, supported the U.S. from the start to the end of the phase. This phase of the War is the longest war in United States history.”

The War in Afghanistan was initially successful in combined US and Northern Alliance conventional operations against the Taliban. But, the Taliban quickly reorganized and began an insurgency against the occupying US forces. The war has now dragged on for nearly 15 years, with 2200 US military personnel killed in action. The Taliban is still fighting and a clear US victory is hard to imagine in any context.

War on ISIS – The US war on ISIS is anything but a war. The US led air campaign is anything but an air campaign. President Obama refuses to take the fight to ISIS in any way, shape or form. Therefore, until a new administration takes power in January of 2017, ISIS will grow in strength across the world. There has rarely been a US led military effort that was so feckless.

It’s high time the United States redefine victory in war. By not redefining victory, by not putting all our strength and might behind these wars, they can linger on forever and they are.

Victory is destroying the enemy and winning the war. To secure victory, the US must fight wars with massive military might. We must adhere to the Powell Doctrine and the lessons of Gulf War I. The nation should avoid conflict if it can. But, if we must fight, the US must have a strategic interest that forces our involvement. And, by God, if we’re going to be in a war, we must throw in everything we have and fight to win!

The only victors in these half-hearted, perpetual wars are the military industrial complex. Everyone else is a loser; the innocent civilians who die, the soldiers who are killed and wounded and who must bear the burden of fighting endless conflicts for the most obtuse of reasons.

The nation has been able to wage endless war in the 21st Century because there is no military draft. No draft equals war ad infinitum. Average Americans don’t care. Why should they? They have no vested interest in the military. If some poor bastard wants to volunteer to hump a rucksack and be a pop up target for Uncle Sam, that’s all well and dandy. The average American could care less.

Trump is right. America used to win wars. It’s high time we start winning again.

[FlingWingFlyer]

And we can thank the bottomfeeding politicians, “judges” and “lawyers” for that. When the decision is made to put “boots on the ground”, they should be the first ones to go. Give ‘em a copy of their own “ROEs”. See how well they can do fighting a war in handcuffs with a set goal to lose the fight.

[TTFlyer]

With the lunatic Left and the so-called “conservative purists” attacking Trump with everything they have it’s beginning to look like the grandees of the GOPe are going to get their default candidate: Marco Rubio/Jeb Bush, the two-sided marionette.

And America will never win again.

[Guenevere]

Thank- you!

GO TRUMP!

[nathanbedford]

The nation has been able to wage endless war in the 21st Century because there is no military draft. No draft equals war ad infinitum. Average Americans don't care. Why should they? They have no vested interest in the military.

This is one reason why the left wants to reinstate the draft, so that it can prevent America from fighting wars. Of course, the left is not against fighting wars if is only against fighting wars against leftists. But the left believes that reinstating the draft will make wars more unpopular and I believe that is also the motivation behind their push to register women.

Since the elimination of the draft in the wake of the Vietnam War, technology has come to the rescue of our Armed Forces. We no longer will be fighting world wars with millions of troops involved in multiple theaters as we experienced in World War II and to some degree in World War I. Now wars will be fought with computers, lasers, satellites, drones, EMTs and, God forbid, thermonuclear weapons. We need technicians more than we need grunts.

Right now we have thousands of troops along the border of North Korea who are a strategic liability acting as a tripwire. They are effective only because an attack against them will bring in the United States but one must ask why do we have to be the bait? We see this same tripwire effect in place along the eastern border of NATO and especially in Turkey. Increasingly, we are playing tripwire games in the South China Sea with China. In many of our treaty arrangements around the world we have actually made ourselves hostage to our client allies who have the option of bringing the United States into war without our approval and certainly not necessarily in our national interests.

All of this is been obvious, I've written about all of this for some time including the futility of the Iraq war, Donald Trump is not an original thinker and did not think any of this up.

[flaglady47]

“All of this is been obvious, I’ve written about all of this for some time including the futility of the Iraq war, Donald Trump is not an original thinker and did not think any of this up.”

Oh for heaven’s sake, stop tooting your own horn. Trump has been the only candidate out there speaking to this. Even though you agree with him, you have to turn it around as being unoriginal and you’ve been saying this for some time. Well so has Trump. Give credit where credit is due for once. Geez. Whose the bigger egoist, you or Trump? At least he’s a rich egoist.

[pboyington]

Good points. General Forrest was a man who knew how to wage war.

[Objective Scrutator]

We have nukes, we should use them. It is better to be feared than loved, and the Muslims will never love us anyways.

[JhawkAtty]

Screw nato. If germany and france can’t be bothered to defend Europe from Russia, why is it our problem?

Shouldn’t we applaud Obama for not backing down to China on in the SCS?

[Republican1795.]

Trump will I hope change that.

[bioqubit]

Remember, Since Truman, we have had the concept of the
“limited war doctrine”. The Korean War was the first “limited war” where we do not go for all out victory.

[puppypusher]

You can’t win wars when you have poor Executive leadership and Political interference from the Congress when things don’t go there way politically.

Just like the Democrats did when they found out the public supported the war effort in Iraq. As soon as they found that out they started attacking George W. Bush and pretty much called our troops murderers for doing the job those democrats sent them to do.

[PGR88]

America doesn’t win wars because everything about us is short-term, especially our culture, which informs our politics.

If you plan to invade a place like Iraq, you had better plan to stay for at least 50 years.

We fought a war in Korea, and our presence is still required there 65 years later.

If we had stayed in Vietnam, South Vietnam would be as prosperous as South Korea is today.

[PGR88]

Screw nato. If germany and france can't be bothered to defend Europe from Russia, why is it our problem?

Its worse than that - NATO is actually enabling European self-destruction and the Muslim invasion of Europe. It is enabling the proto-fascists in Brussels, and their leftist social engineering schemes.

[Bobalu]

[xzins]

...stop tooting...

No. Nathan is right. I have also been writing for years about the immorality of fighting wars one has no intention of winning. Nathan has been writing about it from his perspective. Others here on Free Republic have done the same.

I believe the theme of "fight to win or get out" probably came from Free Republic and then crept into the writings of many in the media.

So, the bottom line is that NathanBedford is one of the truly insightful commentators on Free Republic regarding the military and war. He's worth reading, and far more often than not, he's worth heeding.

Finally, FWIW, I support Trump.

[flaglady47]

“Finally, FWIW, I support Trump.”

Your friend, Nathan Bedford, doesn’t. Guess he isn’t THAT insightful or smart, is he.

[xzins]

Having read his writings over the years, I consider him to be an extremely intelligent person.

[onedoug]

Me too.

[Smokin' Joe]

Your friend, Nathan Bedford, doesn’t. Guess he isn’t THAT insightful or smart, is he.

The jury is still out on that.