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Oh Oh... (Ted Cruz and dual citizenship)
The Market Ticker ^ | 02/08/2016 | Karl Denninger

Posted on 02/10/2016 8:13:15 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007

There's a clean question on the table regarding dual citizenship for persons born in Canada prior to 1977 (when they changed their law to officially recognize dual nationality.)

Prior to that date, with few exceptions, you could not hold dual nationality with Canada. In other words the very act of "renouncing" Canadian Citizenship means that Cruz never held US citizenship at birth because his parents had to declare his nationality at the time he was born.

There may be exceptions that were available at the time but the law now is immaterial.

The only material fact is what the law was then, in 1970, in Canada when Cruz was born.

If his parents declared US for him then he had nothing to renounce and he has a document called a Consular Report of Birth Abroad.

This is the legal equivalent of a US Birth Certificate and Cruz either has one from the time of his birth or he does not. If he does not then he is not a US Citizen as he was never naturalized by his own admission and at birth the nation in which he was born did not recognize dual nationality.

Where is that document Cruz? Your mother's birth certificate is immaterial. What matters is whether you were declared a Canadian or US Citizen at birth and what documentation you have to prove it.

You see, in 1970 there was no "and" option.

Cruz either has that Consular Report of Birth Abroad, which is his legal proof of US Citizenship just as my Birth Certificate is mine, or he doesn't and he's not a citizen at all as his parents declared his citizenship as Canadian and the land he were born in prohibited dual nationality at the time.

If he doesn't have that document, of course, there's a little problem with the office Senator Cruz holds now, say much less his running for President.


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: canadian; citizenship; cruz; nbc; tedcruz
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To: biff
Law Suit /a> Soo you see it has already been done. Note that because Trumps parent where citizens and he was born in USA he is the only one NBC.
81 posted on 02/10/2016 9:44:37 PM PST by Baseballguy (pharaphase (If someone does not believe in heaven or hell - they should not care where they go))
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To: Baseballguy

Those do not have standing. Trump is such a bad ass he should do it himself because he could make the case in court he has standing. Otherwise he needs to shut up.


82 posted on 02/10/2016 9:47:58 PM PST by biff
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To: Baseballguy
Lawsuit By the way Trump is a citizen cause both his parents where citizens and was born in USA.
83 posted on 02/10/2016 9:48:34 PM PST by Baseballguy (pharaphase (If someone does not believe in heaven or hell - they should not care where they go))
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To: biff
Rubio Law Suit Its about the Constitution. Its not that we have had ineligible Presidents before. This is what needs to change.
84 posted on 02/10/2016 9:53:56 PM PST by Baseballguy (pharaphase (If someone does not believe in heaven or hell - they should not care where they go))
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
He's screwed then too, because being naturalized by congress at birth does not make you a natural born citizen.

If the Constitution said this, you'd have a point.

85 posted on 02/10/2016 9:55:11 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot ("Telling the government to lower trade barriers to zero...is government interference" central_va)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
If the Constitution said this

According to you, words not defined within the constitution have no meaning, that original intent doesn't matter, so you actually can't tell me what the Constitution says or doesn't say at all!

86 posted on 02/10/2016 9:56:35 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Calpublican

“The Trump people have to try to obfuscate”

Talk about the pot and kettle. You’re response is to attack the messenger while ignoring the very real message.


87 posted on 02/10/2016 9:57:49 PM PST by Hugin ("First thing--get yourself a firearm!" Sheriff Ed Galt, Last Man St anding.)
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To: Baseballguy

Taco boy was an anchor baby with neither parent a citizen. We will see if the courts determine the voter filing the suit has standing.

I personally wish it would be determined once and for all just to shut up the trumpanzees.


88 posted on 02/10/2016 9:59:08 PM PST by biff
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
You're the one making claims about what it says. Claims not actually backed by the Constitution. Or by legislation.

The Constitution mentions 2 types of citizens, Natural Born and naturalized. There is no mention of a third type, naturalized at birth by Congress.

Try again?

89 posted on 02/10/2016 10:00:17 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot ("Telling the government to lower trade barriers to zero...is government interference" central_va)
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To: CA Conservative

As a practical matter, one has to have documentation proving citizenship to do things like enroll in school or be issued documents such as a Texas Driver’s License. It is not enough to say you are a citizen and your birthday is X. You have to provide proof, which is what the CRBA or US passport does. I had to produce my CRBA to join the military and get my US passport. I had to show my passport and my wife had to show her Green Card the first time we got Texas Drivers Licenses. I assume Cruz had a Texas DL and a US passport. He should have had to provide either a US passport, CRBA or a Certificate of Citizenship to get those documents.


90 posted on 02/10/2016 10:06:16 PM PST by jospehm20
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

/yawn. Though we can easily claim Winston Churchill as an American, he was English and the UK give a flying fig leaf what we have to say about it.

We are not ruled by Canadian law.


91 posted on 02/10/2016 10:09:19 PM PST by Outlaw76 (Conservative, Showman, Rino. Make your choice wisely.)
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To: Duchess47
7 FAM 1441.1 (State Department Manual)

f. The Form FS-240 is not a birth certificate, such as is issued by a government- authorized bureau or office of vital statistics, because consular officers are not authorized to assume a foreign local or state vital statistics function. The Form FS-240 is a consular declaration of the fact of acquisition of U.S. citizenship at birth based upon:

(1) The certification of, or attestation to, the facts of birth by a legally authorized local official in the place where the birth occurred; ... [items (2)- (6) follow]

-- ... got a certificate of live birth from the State Department. --

ROTFL.

92 posted on 02/10/2016 10:12:12 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

I would be interested to see when his American citizenship was documented. It might have been at birth, or soon thereafter, or it might have been four years later, when they returned to the states.

But Ted Cruz is DEFINITELY American. He has a legit social security number, a passport, etc.

It matters not one whit what laws Canada had about not recognizing dual citizenship. If they considered him a citizen at birth, and didn’t know he was also American or entities to be American, it ceased to matter after four years, anyway. THE USA DIDNT RECOGNIZE HIM AS CANADIAN once he was officially American. It’s all about what the laws are in this country.

To make it absurd, Russia could say that everyone who has ever said dass vedanya is officially a Russian citizen. That doesn’t affect one’s USA citizenship in any way. We don’t care. Mexico could make everyone who likes tacos a Mezican citizen. The USA doesn’t give a rat’s patoot.

It is ridiculous to talk about Ted Cruz not being a citizen of the US. There is no evidence he isn’t. He is. Barack Obama is another story. He couldn’t get a SS number. He had to forge both birth certificate and selective service paper. He never had a USA passport until the Senate mysteriously conferred one upon him. Then his files were tampered with, and someone died over it. He lived in foreign student housing at Occidental.

Most likely, with all that smoke, there is fire: most likely Barack Obama, our current President, was not a full citizen of the United States.

Ted Cruz was eligible to be a USA citizen from birth. It depends on when his parents applied, I suppose.


93 posted on 02/10/2016 10:18:32 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: GilGil
Not really, they, like trump supporters will spew this ad nauseam with zero effect.

Just like they would attack the angry old white Republican who personifies the “1%”

Their tactics are transparent and tired. The fact that so many here on FR imitate them is sad. It also shows whom they truly admire.

“Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery”

They have seen a president act as king and they want to choose the next king.

94 posted on 02/10/2016 10:19:13 PM PST by Outlaw76 (Conservative, Showman, Rino. Make your choice wisely.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
The Constitution mentions 2 types of citizens, Natural Born and naturalized. There is no mention of a third type, naturalized at birth by Congress.

It is logically necessary. Congress, constitutionally, only has power to create laws regarding naturalization. Therefore if Congress makes a law granting citizenship at birth, then they are naturalized at birth. A natural born citizen does not need statute to make him what he is. He is born an American. If Cruz has to receive citizenship via the law, he is not a natural born citizen:

"We know exactly what the founders meant by the phrase "natural-born citizen because they adapted it from the English legal term, natural born subject, which in Britain defined who could serve in Parliament or the Privy Council. Essentially, a natural-born citizen was one who met either one of two requirements. First, a person qualified if born within the United States or within American territory, even if the person's parents were aliens. Alternatively, an individual qualified even if born outside the country if the individual's father was an American citizen not then engaged in traitorous or felonious activities.

On at least two occasions the Supreme Court has confirmed that in citizenship matters the Constitution should be read to incorporate principles inherited from Great Britain."

More here from Professor Natelson: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3383198/posts

95 posted on 02/10/2016 10:21:58 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
Or by legislation.

FYI, look up the name of acts used to grant citizenship to people born outside the country. They're called "Naturalization Acts."

96 posted on 02/10/2016 10:23:35 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: jospehm20
-- The US would not know he was a citizen unless his parents filed a CRBA on him when He was born. --

The US wouldn't even know that the person existed! The US doesn't know of the existence until the person shows up and makes a claim of US citizenship. This presentation can happen at any time in the life of the person. If they never present the claim, the US never recognizes them as a citizen.

97 posted on 02/10/2016 10:27:02 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: Toddsterpatriot
-- So where does it say a citizen at birth is naturalized? --

14th amendment.

98 posted on 02/10/2016 10:29:39 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

Yes and if the claim is made after they are an adult, a different form called a certificate of citizenship is issued but it serves the same purpose of documenting citizenship.


99 posted on 02/10/2016 10:32:42 PM PST by jospehm20
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Why is Cruz not being completely transparent about this? He should show exactly what his status was at birth and what it is now? Don’t we expect transparency from our officials.


100 posted on 02/10/2016 10:33:24 PM PST by bray (Trump/Palin 2016)
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