Posted on 01/31/2013 2:58:06 AM PST by Reaganite Republican
Very strange that “Reaganite Republican” associates himself with the John Birch Society since the official JBS position on Reagan is that he was a “phony conservative”.
In fact, Marian Welch (the wife of JBS founder Robert Welch) terminated her JBS membership because of the way that the new leadership of the JBS after her husband died, savaged Reagan in the pages of the JBS magazine, The New American.
With respect to RR’s claim that history has “exonerated” the JBS -— nothing could be further from reality.
For example:
The Birch Society is on record upon numerous occasions emphatically declaring that J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI were our nation’s most knowledgeable, authoritative, and reliable source of factual information about internal security matters generally, and about the communist movement in particular — as well as on what constituted effective anti-communism.
However, more often than not, FBI investigative files falsify every premise and conclusion which the JBS has disseminated over the pst 50 years. And there are numerous FBI memos which reveal the utter contempt which senior FBI officials within the Domestic Intelligence Division had for Robert Welch and the JBS.
FBI FILES ON BIRCH SOCIETY AND ITS ASSERTIONS:
This 204-page report explains why J. Edgar Hoover and senior FBI officials within the Bureaus Domestic Intelligence Division concluded in FBI memos that the JBS was extremist, irrational and irresponsible
http://sites.google.com/site/ernie124102/jbs-1
CONSERVATIVE CRITICS OF ROBERT WELCH and BIRCH SOCIETY:
Contrary to claims made by the Birch Society about the alleged “left-wing” origins of JBS criticism, the most potent adverse comments about the JBS have always originated from the right-side of the political spectrum. This report presents a representative sample of such comments.
http://sites.google.com/site/ernie124102/jbs-4
Critics have included such prominent Americans as: Sen. Barry Goldwater, Cong. Walter Judd, Gen. Albert C. Wedemeyer, Russell Kirk, Eugene Lyons, Willmoore Kendall, James Burnham, Robert Bork, J. Edgar Hoover, Herbert Philbrick, Frank S. Meyer, Cong. Gordon H. Scherer, William F. Buckley Jr., Patrick Buchanan, Fred Schwarz, Lee Edwards, the editors of the conservative newspaper, Human Events, George Sokolsky, Roy Cohn, Anthony Bouscaren, plus even many former Birchers such as: Alan Stang, Gary Allen, Milorad Draskovich, John Rees, William Norman Grigg, Mrs. Robert Welch -— and many many more.
DOCUMENTARY HISTORY OF THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY:
This report presents documents which, generally, have never been previously publicly available — including private correspondence between Robert Welch and numerous individuals and correspondence by JBS National Council members during the formative years of the Birch Society. This report is a work-in-progress and considerable new material will be added over the next few months.
JBS 9-1 https://sites.google.com/site/ernie1241/
JBS 9-2 https://sites.google.com/site/ernie1241a/
JBS 9-3 https://sites.google.com/site/ernie1241b/
Very strange that “Reaganite Republican” associates himself with the John Birch Society since the official JBS position on Reagan is that he was a “phony conservative”.
In fact, Marian Welch (the wife of JBS founder Robert Welch) terminated her JBS membership because she was so angry at the way which the new leadership of the JBS savaged Reagan in the pages of the JBS magazine, The New American, after her husband died. [The current JBS President, John McManus, once said that if the GOP nominated Reagan for President, it would be evidence that Reagan must be “a lackey” of the Communists!]. It should also be noted that Ronald Reagan denounced Robert Welch’s contentions about Eisenhower and other matters.
With respect to Reaganite Republican’s claim that history has “exonerated” the JBS -— nothing could be further from reality.
For example:
The Birch Society (and JBS founder Robert Welch) on numerous occasions emphatically declared that J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI were our nation’s most knowledgeable, authoritative, and reliable source of factual information about internal security matters generally, and about the communist movement in particular — as well as about what constituted effective anti-communism.
However, more often than not, FBI investigative files falsify every premise and conclusion which the JBS has disseminated over the past 50 years. And there are numerous FBI memos which reveal the utter contempt which senior FBI officials within the Domestic Intelligence Division had for Robert Welch and the JBS. See report below.
FBI FILES ON BIRCH SOCIETY AND ITS ASSERTIONS:
This 204-page report explains why J. Edgar Hoover and senior FBI officials within the Bureaus Domestic Intelligence Division concluded in FBI memos that the JBS was extremist, irrational and irresponsible
http://sites.google.com/site/ernie124102/jbs-1
CONSERVATIVE CRITICS OF ROBERT WELCH and BIRCH SOCIETY:
Contrary to claims made by the Birch Society about the alleged “left-wing” origins of JBS criticism, the most potent adverse comments about the JBS have always originated from the right-side of the political spectrum. This report presents a representative sample of such comments.
http://sites.google.com/site/ernie124102/jbs-4
Critics have included such prominent Americans as: Sen. Barry Goldwater, Cong. Walter Judd, Gen. Albert C. Wedemeyer, Russell Kirk, Eugene Lyons, Willmoore Kendall, James Burnham, Robert Bork, J. Edgar Hoover, Herbert Philbrick, Frank S. Meyer, Cong. Gordon H. Scherer, William F. Buckley Jr., Patrick Buchanan, Fred Schwarz, Lee Edwards, the editors of the conservative newspaper, Human Events, George Sokolsky, Roy Cohn, Anthony Bouscaren, plus even many former Birchers such as: Alan Stang, Gary Allen, Milorad Draskovich, John Rees, William Norman Grigg, Mrs. Robert Welch -— and many many more.
DOCUMENTARY HISTORY OF THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY:
This report presents documents which, generally, have never been previously publicly available — including private correspondence between Robert Welch and numerous individuals and correspondence by JBS National Council members during the formative years of the Birch Society. This report is a work-in-progress and considerable new material will be added over the next few months.
JBS 9-1 https://sites.google.com/site/ernie1241/
JBS 9-2 https://sites.google.com/site/ernie1241a/
JBS 9-3 https://sites.google.com/site/ernie1241b/
Whoah
Need some time to chew on this, searching123...
Thank you
BTW, has nothing to do with what anybody thinks of Reagan
All I’m saying as they were mocked not worth listening to -like the TEA Party today- and 75% of the predictions came true already, that’s all
John Wayne was never a JBS member
According to the FBI file which contained statistical information about the number of known and suspected Communist Party members and sympathizers in the U.S., your statement regarding Communist infiltration of our government is false.
As J. Edgar Hoover observed in 1962:
“The Communist Party in this country has attempted to infiltrate and subvert every segment of our society, but its continuing efforts have not achieved success of any substance. Too many self-styled experts on communism, without valid credentials and without any access whatsoever to classified factual data regarding the inner workings of the conspiracy, have engaged in rumor-mongering and hurling false and wholly unsubstantiated allegations against persons whose views differ from their own. This is dangerous business. It is divisive and unintelligent, and makes more difficult the task of the professional investigator.” [Hoover statement in February 5, 1962 letter to Mrs. W.R. Brown of Bountiful Utah [FBI HQ file 94-1-369, serial #1676]; also published as letter-to-editor in Tri-Cities Daily newspaper of Sheffield, Alabama on Sunday March 31, 1963.]
In my experience, the folks who are the greatest admirers of the JBS and who post messages online claiming that the JBS has been “exonerated by history” — have never done much significant independent research into JBS assertions, conclusions, and JBS history.
See, for example, the historic, precedent-setting defamation lawsuit against Robert Welch Inc. (the publishing arm of the Birch Society) by Chicago lawyer Elmer Gertz.
After 14 years of litigation, including two jury trials, and numerous appeals, plus review by the U.S. Supreme Court — the Birch Society paid Gertz $100,000 in compensatory damages and $300,000 in punitive damages.
Punitive damages are only allowed when “malice” can be shown — which in legalese is reckless disregard for the truth arising from evil intent and a desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering.
The 1982 Appeals Court decision in the Gertz defamation lawsuit made the following observation:
“There was more than enough evidence for the jury to conclude that this article was published with utter disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements contained in the article about Gertz.” [U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, No. 81-2483, Elmer Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 6/16/82, page 20].
On 6/25/74, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Lewis F. Powell delivered the U.S. Supreme Court decision [docket number 72-617] which pertained to the appeal of the first Gertz trial verdict.
Justice Powell stated that this case “involves a libel action by a reputable attorney against a magazine that falsely libeled him a Leninist and a Communist-fronter.”
Lastly, I quote verbatim (below) from comments made by Birch Society founder Robert Welch to the first meeting of the JBS National Council. Does anyone seriously contend that these conclusions represent any sort of reputable or reliable political opinion in the United States?
A scanned copy of the minutes of this National Council meeting are available for review in my reports about the JBS (links given in previous message posted here). Page numbers shown refer to page number of the original minutes.
ROBERT WELCH:
“Today, gentlemen, I can assure you, without the slightest doubt in my own mind that the takeover at the top is, for all practical purposes, virtually complete. Whether you like it or not, or whether you believe it or not, our Federal Government is already, literally in the hands of the Communists.” [page 2]
“In our two states with the largest population, New York and California...already the two present Governors are almost certainly actual Communists...Our Congress now contains a number of men like Adam Clayton Powell of New York and Charles Porter of Oregon, who are certainly actual Communists, and plenty more who are sympathetic to Communist purposes for either ideological or opportunistic reasons.” [page 7] [Note: the reference to Governors refers to Edmund G. Brown of California and Nelson Rockefeller of New York.]
“In the Senate, there are men like Stephen Young of Ohio, and Wayne Morse of Oregon, McNamara of Michigan, and Clifford Case of New Jersey and Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota and Estes Kefauver of Tennessee and John F. Kennedy of Massachusetts, whom it is utter folly to think of as just liberals. Every one of those men is either an actual Communist or so completely a Communist sympathizer or agent that it makes no practical difference...” [page 8]
Our Supreme Court, dominated by Earl Warren and Felix Frankfurter and Hugo Black, is so visibly pro-Communist that no argument is even needed And our federal courts below that level are in many cases just as bad. [page 8]
“Our State Department is loaded with Communists from top to bottom, to the extent that our roll call of Ambassadors almost sounds like a list somebody has put together to start a Communist front.” ... [page 8]
“It is estimated from many reliable sources that from 70% to 90% of the responsible personnel in the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare are Communists. Our Central Intelligence Agency under Allen Dulles is nothing more or less than an agency to promote Communism throughout the world...Almost all the other Departments are loaded with Communists and Communist sympathizers. And this generalization most specifically does include our whole Defense Department.” [page 8]
Incidentally, with respect to Welch’s comments about U.S. Senators (quoted above), I recently received the FBI file on former Sen. Estes Kefauver whom Welch described as either an “actual Communist or so completely a Communist sympathizer or agent that it makes no practical difference”.
Below, I copy the text of the telegram which J. Edgar Hoover sent to Mrs. Kefauver when her husband died:
Please accept my deepest sympathy in the passing of your husband. This is a great shock to me and to his many friends throughout the nation and the world. While words are most inadequate on such an occasion, I hope you may gain some consolation from knowing that his outstanding contributions to the welfare of his country and his deep concern for his fellow man will long serve as a memorial to him. His achievements and devotion to duty as a public servant are a special tribute to his statesmanship. His passing creates a void which our nation can ill afford and is a great loss to all mankind. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. J. Edgar Hoover [HQ 62-77208, #108, 8/10/63 Hoover telegram to Mrs. Estes Kefauver, Washington DC]
A notation on the Bureau file copy of the telegram is as follows:
Senator Kefauver was a very close friend of the Director and the FBI. He was on the Special Correspondents List on a first-name basis.
This type of ignorant, malicious, and vicious assault by Robert Welch upon virtually our entire national political leadership is what led J. Edgar Hoover to remark at a press conference in 1964 that:
“Personally, I have little respect for the head of the John Birch Society since he linked the names of former President Dwight D. Eisenhower, the late John Foster Dulles, and former CIA Director Allen Dulles with communism.”
Over the past 30+ years, I have obtained hundreds of thousands of pages of FBI investigative files. I specifically requested (and received) FBI files on numerous individuals and organizations defamed by Robert Welch and the JBS. FBI files routinely FALSIFY the accusations made by Welch and the JBS.
Of particular interest are the FBI files which pertain to the Communist Party USA because they so clearly reveal how incredibly irresponsible and totally ignorant Robert Welch (and the JBS) have been:
For example: according to Robert Welch in July 1961:
we believe that there are not more than 300,000 to 500,000 Communists in our country (or about ¼ of 1% of our population) and not more than a million allies, dupes, and sympathizers whom they can count on for any conscious support [JBS Bulletin, July 1961, page 14]
Thus, in total, Welch thought there were about 1.3 to 1.5 million Communists, Communist dupes, Communist sympathizers and Communist allies in the United States as of July 1961.
By contrast, the actual number of CP members in the United States according to the FBI was 5262 — i.e. nothing remotely close to Welch’s perception of 300,000 to 500,000! [See FBI New York field file 100-80638, serial #1882, which is a 6/30/61 FBI Chart of CPUSA Membership, by state, by FBI field divisions and by CPUSA Districts. The first page of that summary is copied below].
More significantly, the FBIs Security Index was designed to track all persons considered actually or potentially dangerous to U.S. internal security. It included known and suspected Communist Party members plus Communist sympathizers, leaders in Communist fronts, and anyone whom the Bureau considered a potential security risk.
At the time Welch made his statement in July 1961, the FBIs July 1961 Security Index report listed a total of 11,833 persons of which 9899 were in the Communist category—which included known or suspected Party members or sympathizers. Thus, while Welch perceived more than a million Communist operatives or sympathizers, the FBI concluded that only 9899 Americans were a potential security concern. [HQ file 100-358086, #2939].
That’s only because he was.
Actually, their syndicate is our monetary system, out of which finance grows.
lol Nice, isn’t it.
You are mistaken about the JBS position on MLK Jr.
In every imaginable way possible (literature, pictures, postcards, billboards, speakers), the JBS described King in terms calculated to evoke fear, hostility, contempt, and revulsion -— and ALWAYS in the context of him being a Communist or Communist sympathizer.
More importantly, the Birch Society sought to discredit, demonize, and de-legitimize our entire civil rights leadership and ALL of our civil rights organizations.
The JBS repeatedly made these assertions:
(1) June 1965 JBS Bulletin, Mr. Welch observed:
“Our task must be simply to make clear that the movement known as ‘civil rights’ is Communist-plotted, Communist-controlled, and in fact...serves only Communist purposes.”
(2) In August 1965, the JBS ran a full-page ad in many U.S. newspapers entitled Whats Wrong With Civil Rights? One of the answers provided by the JBS was:
For the civil rights movement in the United States with all of its growing agitation and riots and bitterness, and insidious steps toward the appearance of civil war, has not been infiltrated by the Communists, as you now frequently hear. It has been deliberately and almost wholly created by the Communists patiently building up to this present stage for more than thirty years. [HQ 62-104401, serial #2621, 8/31/65 airtel from SAC Birmingham to J. Edgar Hoover with attachment of ad from Sunday 8/29/65 Birmingham AL News.]
(3) In the November 1966 JBS Bulletin, Robert Welch declared:
We have said many times, and we repeat now, that if you can fully expose the civil rights fraud, you will break the back of the Communist conspiracy. But the word fully is important in that sentence. It calls for bringing a preponderant majority of our fellow citizens really to grasp the fact that the civil rights program has been designed by Communists, is controlled by Communists, and will be used by the Communists as a vital part of their total strategy for taking over our country.
(4) And as recently as in the May 2008 JBS Bulletin:
Just as the John Birch Society showed in the 1960’s that the communists basically ran both the civil rights movement and the KKK, the strategy was nothing new...”
Regulator: HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS CAN SOMEBODY LIBEL YOU WITH VICIOUS STATEMENTS AND INNUENDO BEFORE YOU ARE WILLING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT DEFAMATION AND DESTRUCTION OF YOUR CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN THE INTENT OF THAT PERSON??
Lastly, FYI, the FBI employed speakers who gave hundreds of speeches around the country (i.e. the JBS American Opinion Speakers Bureau). Those speakers made it perfectly obvious that they considered MLK Jr. to be a Communist! And they ALWAYS referred to King “attending a Communist training school” — which was a reference to Highlander Folk School in Monteagle TN.
HOWEVER, the person who originally characterized Highlander as a “Communist training school” was a self-described racist segregationist (Edwin Friend) who, incidentally, was the official photographer for the Georgia KKK!
THAT is the quality of evidence which the JBS relied upon to destroy MLK Jr!
In my reply to Regulator (message #52) I made a typo. I stated that the “FBI” employed speakers via the American Opinion Speakers Bureau —but I should have typed “the JBS employed...”
I disagree with your observation. The JBS position regarding Reagan is very significant because it illustrates how extreme the JBS is. Most Tea Party movement members appear to admire and respect Reagan.
There is no possible way you could claim that “75%” of JBS predictions have already come true. First of all, do you honestly expect us to believe that you have read every publication ever published by the JBS which contained a “prediction” — so that you know the exact percentage of correct vs. incorrect “predictions”?
Then, there is the matter of what verifiable factual evidence you are using as “proof” for your assertion.
More importantly, has the JBS EVER acknowledged substantive error about ANYTHING? Has it ever retracted some derogatory or libelous assertion it made about any person or organization? ANSWER: NO!!!
Let me give you one clear-cut example (aside from the Gertz lawsuit previously mentioned) which illustrates how disingenuous JBS arguments are — which is why NOBODY could ever claim “75%” accuracy for the JBS!
This example illustrates how Robert Welch and the JBS use language in such a very sloppy and imprecise manner that it becomes possible for them to arrive at ANY conclusion they want readers to accept-—even mutually contradictory ones....as will be demonstrated below.
In “The Politician” Robert Welch explicitly states (page 109):
“Now it is perfectly all right for a man to be a Democrat, even an A.D.A. [Americans For Democratic Action] Democrat, if that school of political philosophy expresses his own honest beliefs.”
BUT just 10 pages later, Welch states that the objective of the ADA and a similar Republican group called Republican Advance was “the gradual communization of the United States to make easier its absorption into a world-wide Communist empire ruled from the Kremlin.”
And, then, about 4 months later, during his 12/58 lecture in Indianapolis to the 11 men whom Welch asked to support him with creating the John Birch Society -— as reported in the JBS Blue Book, page 117, Welch declared:
“But the ADA, whether a lot of its members know it or not, is the same as an arm of the Communist Party. Its weight can be thrown, and is thrown, time after time, with never an exception, in support of Communist objectives.”
SO WHICH ROBERT WELCH SHOULD WE BELIEVE?
(1) Is it “perfectly all right” to be an “ADA Democrat”?
OR
(2) Is the ADA a subversive group whose objectives amount to treason and whose agenda “is the same as an arm of the Communist Party” because it seeks to facilitate “the gradual communization of the United States to make easier its absorption into a world-wide Communist empire ruled from the Kremlin.” ??
If the JBS mentality was operative within our Justice Department, what would happen to ADA leaders and ADA members?
What would happen to ANY American whom the JBS has previously described as a “Communist”, or as a “Comsymp” or as “an agent” of the Communist Party?
Obviously, Welch’s definition of “Communist” was so elastic, that it could be (and was) applied to anything and anybody he or the JBS did not like!
Their power comes from their monopoly of the issuance of legal tenderness. Money is the lever upon which their hand sits. Finance, either through banks or through government, is secondary to that. I don’t know why you laugh.
If you read Ann Coulters Treason you will see that our journalists - who were objective even back then - systematically ridiculed and distorted McCarthys views and statements, putting him in heads you lose, tails I win situations. They demanded that he name names, when all he had said was that there was reason to investigate to learn names, if any - and then if he did name a name, they condemned him for smearing the person named. When in fact the name corresponded, history shows, with an actual communist.I dont pretend to know the details of what you are referring to - but the odds are long that McCarthy had a legitimate, if too nuanced for him to be able to burn through the fog of journalistic obfuscation, point.
I put objective in scare quotes above. To me, the most powerful case against objective journalism is to be found precisely in their claim to be objective. Because, in the nature of things, it is impossible for anyone to know that they themselves are objective. So if you say you are objective, that just proves - conclusively - that you are not objective about yourself. Which is to say, you are not objective about anything.
It is of course possible, and laudable, to attempt objectivity. It even is legitimate to say that you are trying to be objective (if in fact you are). The catch, for the objective journalist, is that any good-faith attempt at objectivity must start with self-examination, and an open discussion of any reasons you can think of why you might not be objective. Which is, of course, precisely the opposite of claiming actually to be objective.
Im sure that some people claimed to be objective - just as the Sophists of ancient Greece claimed to be wise - before the advent of the Associated Press. But the AP institutionalized the claim of actual objectivity in the late Nineteenth Century in response to the alarms which were raised about the concentration of propaganda power which the Associated Press represented. The AP justified that claim on the basis that it was composed of dozens (at the time) of newspapers which individually were notorious at the time for not agreeing about much of anything (source: News Over the Wires: The Telegraph and the Flow of Public Information in America, 1844-1897 by Menahem Blondheim).
It has been an unspoken premise of membership in good standing within the AP, including within any newspaper which belongs to the AP, ever since. If you go to work as a journalist you are signing on to the premise that you will claim that every other journalist is objective - and that you expect every other journalist to claim that you are objective. Thus, by becoming a journalist for the AP or one of its member outlets, you are de facto claiming that you are objective. Which excludes having the humility to admit to any subjective impulses.
And that implies that you are not even trying to be objective. Oh, you will go along with the rules for objectivity such as giving both sides of the story - but the trouble is that you have already ruled out the possibility that there actually are valid perspectives other than your own. So even if you tell the other side of the story" until the cows come home, the version of the other side of the story" which you tell will always be a straw man. Anyone who considers himself to be the arbiter of what is objective will be extremely subjective.
Journalists systematically agree with liberals for the simple reason that liberals have the same motive that objective journalists do - namely, to get attention and credit for importance, without having to actually work, and without the constraints of a bottom line. Liberal politicians and objective journalists profit from their symbiotic relationship. Objective journalists and liberals cooperate in finding ways to embarrass people who are trying to gain their sense of importance by actually doing needed things.http://www.robertmundell.net/NobelLecture/nobel3.asp
But what you learn when you go into the history is that they were communists - or communist enablers - it’s an astounding thing - no one could be more surprised than I was when I finally learned the details and connected the dots.
If you think Ike was some sort of a communist enabler, that would put in about the one or two percent of the population that believes so. And that’s a particular population composed of conservatives.
Please give me examples of how he was wrong.
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