Posted on 01/07/2013 9:41:13 AM PST by SERKIT
What if we had a President that ran on the concept of "fundamentally changing" America, away from its founding principles, away from its traditions, and away from the Constitution?
What if we had such corrupt politicians that freedoms were reduced, slowly but surely eroded, or repealed?
What if the corrupt politicians and the anti-American President continued to oppress the people and suppress freedom?
Wouldn't a revolution only predicted, but necessary? In order to stay free, and preserve the Constitution - where politicians fail to defend the Constitution - then the people will need to defend it - by maintaining an armed citizenry. Isn't this also part of the intent behind the Second Amendment?
Will the roots of the Liberty Tree soon, once again, require fertilization by the blood of tyrants and patriots, to paraphrase one of our founders?
You have the freedom to keep and bear arms, but you don't need to - you should have the freedom of choice.
Gear up! Patriotism required.
This Country is on the same path every civilization has taken over the last 2000+ years. Denying it isn't going to change the outcome.
That's kind of a broad statement. Can you elaborate or do you just have more insults?
No. It isn't. The trend of government growing to the detriment of liberty is reflected in every society from the "Bread and Circuses" of Rome to the "trains running on time" in fascist Italy and Austria.
Disarming the populace to achieve that control is a hallmark of the downfall of every civilization that takes that path.
If you are that ignorant of history, there is no wonder you are having problems keeping up with current events.
Neither is living in revolution mode 24/7 and not doing anything.
Taking up arms in defense of our Republic is the LAST thing on my list.
Letter writing, phone calls, advocacy work, campaigns... None of it appears to be working.
These gun bans pass, the Courts won't be a lot of help when the SWAT team comes to kick in your door.
No. It isn't. The trend of government growing to the detriment of liberty is reflected in every society from the "Bread and Circuses" of Rome to the "trains running on time" in fascist Italy and Austria.
Disarming the populace to achieve that control is a hallmark of the downfall of every civilization that takes that path.
That's debatable. What isn't debatable is any notion that an armed population will necessarily stem socialism.
Almost everyone in Switzerland has a fully-automatic military rifle and they must attend annual training on it. The also have a health-insurance mandate similar to what we have here. Why aren't they having a revolution? Israel requires everyone to have military training and encourages people to own weapons. They also have a universal health care mandate.
Is the US government more oppressive than either of these governments? If so, how? Why should I believe that the US is more likely to explode into internal conflict than Israel or Switzerland?
I don’t want to walk a mile in your shoes. And you are not doing anything. You are spouting off about bloodshed and revolution as if they are happening soon. Except it’s always “soon”, never now. Same old same old.
Okay, I’ve been following this thread for a bit this morning (and others like it recently) and am inclined to posit some “hypotheticals” in light of what we see around us:
Were loyal Americans so-inclined to form a militia (as indicated by the 2nd Amendment) there would need to be serious coordination. Without a strategy in place, the “loyal opposition” being suggested here would be at a serious disadvantage against whatever government forces might be quickly deployed. Such a force would quickly overwhelm any small local militia. They would topple these groups, going from neighborhood to neighborhood/town by town like so many dominoes. In short, a rag-tag revolutionary force of loosely connected groups would be defeated before it even gets off the ground. Stray troops in the woods could live a “hit and run” lifestyle for a while, go “wolverine” for a time, but, in the end, would be tracked down and lose. If loyal Americans were inclined to actually strive to wrest the country back from the usurpers, then an organized, tactical, coordinated force is required.
To start, a means of communication is needed so that when “critical mass” is reached, loyal Americans can know how to “beat their plowshares back into swords”, can know how to connect with other like-minded individuals, etc. Of course, this will be monitored by the government (as, I’m sure, threads such as these are), so overcoming government eavesdropping poses the greatest challenge here.
I would say, recruiting is a high priority. How will those so inclined know how/when/where to assemble? How will preventing these efforts from being undermined by nefarious government intervention be accomplished? This is no small challenge. One must assume that if America is at such a brink, then there are those in the government who are thinking about disrupting the very things being spoken of here. Where will the loyal militia come from? Are they on my block? On yours? How do these groups connect? How do they connect with others in our towns? What about recruiting? Are loyal Americans-so-inclined to hold living room coffees to sound out their neighbors? Once these neighborhood/town groups are “assembled,” how do they link up with other regional groups to form into legitimate units of resistance? What about other recruiting? Think: recruiting from the forces that the enemy would be using against such an endeavor (military, police, gov’t. agencies). It can probably be assumed that there are members of these units who are amenable to this cause. How do Americans-so-inclined identify and coordinate with such loyalists?
Leadership is essential. The colonists had Washington and others who stoked the morale of their troops through some very lean times. What we are talking about here in 2013 is an America that none of us have ever seen before. Some of this “band of brothers” will have military service behind them, experiences in outdoor survival, police experience, scouting, etc. Some (many?) will be hunters. Some will have seldom used a firearm. Ages will vary. Some will be more willing than able. Degree of comfort in lifestyles will vary. In other words, those coming from various backgrounds, willing to risk their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honors, will form up for this noble cause. Each body, each man/woman in the field will be needed—everything will be on the line at this point. Leaders will be needed to organize, orchestrate, deploy, fire up, reduce dissension/disruption in the ranks. Such a group will have to function as one—discipline, order, control will be at a premium. Again, should loyal Americans be so inclined, they will assemble into something that they have never been before—freedom fighters. This will be a fight for everything. For life, for liberty, for property.
Materiel will be needed. Guns, ammo, provisions, weather gear, boots/socks, packs, night-vision, maps, compasses, walkie-talkie, etc. Sounds simplistic/silly to write. I’ve no military background (my experience is this: I’ve done some camping, fired a gun—can only imagine all the rest). But an American so-inclined would have to give serious consideration to survival in the field, gunfights in the streets/woodlands. Supplying, re-supplying a militia in the field is a consideration.
Allies. There are “Americans” around the world. Not nationalized citizens, but Americans by spirit. These are the would-be allies of so-inclined American militia that may be needed/may be willing to join such a struggle.
I write as one who follows these threads, aware, as others, of a certain rumbling off in the distance. I write as one who hesitates to believe that this is at all possible this year, yet aware that the air is swirling with rapid change. Where before, you, dear reader, would never have thought such a thing possible 10-20 years ago, you are now imagining such a scenario today. We use to shake our head with incredulity, now we hang our heads pensively wondering, “When will this all come to a head?” And your government knows you are thinking such things, imagining such a scenario. Gun-grab legislation is being tabled rapidly in the national conversation. Rampant government excess is the norm…our leaders are arrogantly propelling us toward socialism (with communism following closely on its heels). Those who might be loyal are shouted down and silenced by a propaganda machine that has succeeded in owning the message. Our citizens have been blinded, numbed, duped, lulled to sleep while there is a storm brewing in the distance. Americans who love liberty and freedom are aware that, as Yeats said,
“Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
Loyal Americans who love this country and see it for what it is, and for what it has become, suffer in our souls over what is happening to Her . We know America is, “the world’s last best hope”, and find something stirring within us that says, “these things must not be.” And, to that end, Americans so-inclined must look at applying Constitutional principles (contained in the Second Amendment) in light of real-world logistical realities in order to preserve, protect, and defend that very Constitution.
“I suggest you go buy several pairs of knee pads”
I kind of think that things are going to be just about like they always are.
Most people are locked into jobs and families and other real world reality based problems.
I’m sure fantasizing about being a modern day revolutionary is fun though.
Maybe we can build a tree fort, and I can get my mom to make sandwiches and we can eat them in the tree fort.
Wow... I didn't know the Amazing Kreskin posted here. I thought you were dead...
No. It isn't. The particulars vary from culture to culture, but the end result is the same.
Is the US government more oppressive than either of these governments? If so, how?
Free speech. Freedom of economic liberty. Personal liberty. The number of laws and regulations being promulgated on annual basis with which we must content...
So arguably, yes. And getting worse daily.
A gun ban, magazine ban, attempt at universal registration... These are "last straws".
We've been given warnings. From the writings of Cicero to our own Founding Fathers. We can ignore them, or we can take their advice.
You want to ignore them... That's your right. It just doesn't make you "right".
If we can avoid a physical fight, then great.
I just don't see them letting this issue go though.
They will.
One state rep saying this? You know how many crazy things state reps have said that haven’t come close to becoming law?
If it was just one nutcase, we could ignore it.
But, you know that.
Why you are trying to minimize the issue... Now that would be an interesting question.
Free speech.
Speech is freer in Israel and Switzerland? In the US you can walk around adorned in swastikas proclaiming the awesomeness of Adolph Hitler. It will offend a lot of people, obviously, but in Israel or Switzerland, this will also land you in prison because it is illegal. How is that freer than the US?
Freedom of economic liberty. Personal liberty.
These are too vague to respond to.
A gun ban, magazine ban, attempt at universal registration... These are "last straws".
justice14 has pointed out that there is no visible movement on gun control in DC. The only viable suggestion I heard was a reinstatement of a previously-existing "assault weapons ban." I don't think I need to reiterate how stupid that law was (or would be), but I can factually point out that it was in force for many years without sparking a revolution.
I agree with some of your broad notions of liberty and the necessity to defend it, but I don't think this country is anywhere near the point where that is going to happen... and I'm pretty skeptical because I heard all this when Clinton was elected and none of it happened then, either.
Finally, I have yet to hear a realistic hypothetical scenario that ends in anything other than a Waco-style standoff and media circus. When we all "rise up," who are we supposed to follow? How do we know who is friend or foe? Should I run out and stage an armed takeover of the DMV? How is this supposed to work? I guess I could join a militia group of some kind, but who should we ally with when the SHTF? Why should we trust someone else's militia group?
There will be no Waco standoffs. What there will be is coast-to-coast bands of folks hunting random gun grabbing legislators and litigators. Lather, rinse, repeat until they leave us alone.
It isn't going to be a "stand up fight". There will be no Civil War type armies marching around in uniform. There will be no massive National militia movement call up that will march on Washington with banners flying...
Forget what you think you know or that you may have seen in the movies. Reality isn't a movie...
-Why you are trying to minimize the issue... Now that would be an interesting question.-
Because I prefer not to jump to bloodshed/revolution when one state rep says something I don’t like.
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