Posted on 06/01/2012 4:03:38 AM PDT by IbJensen
well, I wouldn't criticize the White House resident out loud. <sarcasm>
I am glad the freak is going to jail....of course you did not read the story.
No you are incorrect. He didn't spank anybody. He advised his congregation to use either a wooden spoon or a dowel to spank their children and since some of them apparently did, the pastor was the one who was charged. The parents who may have "abused" their children were given immunity to testify against the pastor.
The Bible teaches that to spare the rod is to spoil the child. Apparently if you believe that proverb or if you read it aloud in public, then you can be sent to prison.
IF he told people to beat INFANTS, he was calling for child abuse. It is hard enough to know what is going on, without conservatives (Right Side News) lying or misleading. I expect the left to do this. Would be nice if the right did not act like the left.
When Caminiti has served his sentence he should get on GoogTube and start posting videos of what he is teaching, the legal hell he went through as a result of it, and also do a comparison of how things are done in the Islamic world both abroad and right here in America.
Indeed. To tell a child (i.e. anyone under 18) that their sexual preference is a sin would be mental abuse and the government will not tolerate anyone telling a child they are a sinner.
Source:
The charges alleged that two of the children involved were just 2 months old when discipline was advocated by Caminiti. The oldest child was 5 when the practice was stopped after police intervened in November 2010.
“I am glad the freak is going to jail....of course you did not read the story.”
I agree...he is one sick bustard. Beating a 2 month old infant with a wooden stick is beyond the pale.
The Pastor was sentenced for multiple counts of child abuse, which is a crime even for a pastor.
Oh. I forgot, back in those days most children had manners and obeyed the rules and laws. Now-days, without any discipline they don’t...just get “time outs.”
You should get your-facts straight before defending something.
He advised parents to beat their children as young as a few months old with a wooden spoon (he first denied this and then admitted say this on the stand) and that bruises were NOT and indication that the beatings went too far. He also knew that this activity was illegal and advised parents to do it out of the sight of witnesses. His own brother was convicted of child abuse.
This demented psycho was probably abused himself at a young age and maybe we can pity him, but I would no more defend him I would than a father who rapes his own son.
The crime was Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Conspiracy to Commit. So it looks like it is illegal to advocate spanking. Free speech is dead.
State of Wisconsin vs. Philip B Caminiti
Dane County Case Number 2011CF000479
Charge(s)/Sentence(s)
Charge Detail
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
1 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 12-31-2008 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Defendant is not eligible for the Substance Abuse Program. Defendant is not eligible for the Challenge Incarceration Program.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Restitution DA has 90 days to prepare/submit order.
Costs $113 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections. All outstanding financial obligations shall be paid at the rate of 25% of the prison wages and work release funds. The balance remaining at release from prison be paid as a condition of extended supervision or parole at a rate determined by the supervising agent.
Psych treatment Psychiatric/psychological evaluation as deemed appropriate by agent and treatment as recommended. Exam by Dr. James Gerndt.
Prohibitions Defendant shall not have any contact, direct or indirect, with Aleitheia Bible Church or any of its members except for his immediate family, children & grandchildren. Not have any leadership position in any church. No physical discipline of any child or counseling on physical discipline. No possession of any rods and/or dowels that may be used for physical discipline of children.
Other Complete a course in child development. Defendant advised of requirement to provide DNA sample - surcharge waived. Any other conditions DOC, Probation/Parole Department may impose.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
2 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Cts 2-8 are concur with each other but consec to ct 1.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
3 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
4 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 10-31-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
5 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-21-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
6 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
7 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-29-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
The Defendant was charged with the following offense:
Count No. Statute Cite Description Severity Offense Date Plea
8 948.03(2)(b) Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm Felony H 11-19-2010 Not Guilty on 06-29-2011
Charge Modifier(s)
Statute Cite Description
939.31 Conspiracy to Commit
On 03-21-2012 there was a finding of:
Action Court Official
Found Guilty at Jury Trial Sumi, Maryann
On 05-25-2012 the following was ordered:
Sentence Time Begin Date Notes
State prison 1 Years Same as ct 2.
Extended Supervision 3 Years
Condition Time Notes
Costs $268 to be collected by the Dept of Corrections.
Other All other conditions are the same as count 1.
From the court records All charges are Conspiracy to Commit Child Abuse-Intentionally Cause Harm So thaey are saying that his advocating spanking is a crime. Now it is against the law to talk.
Return to Case 2011CF000479
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Ok lets get the "facts" straight.
First of all, is this pastor a psycho? Probably. But there is an axiom in the law that "hard cases make bad law." I think this is one of them.
Fact: Does the Bible admonish parents to use a "rod" to discipline their children? Answer: Yes.
Did the pastor believe this proverb? Yes
Did the pastor teach this proverb? Answer: Yes
Does Wisconsin law prohibit the use of a "rod" to discipline a child? Answer: I suspect it does, but I also expect that it depends. This is a gray area. Apparently if it causes any kind of bruising then probably.
Was the Pastor accused of actually using a "rod" on any child? Answer: No.
Did the parishioners follow the biblical mandate to use a rod to discipline their children? Answer: Apparently so.
Did the pastor advise the parents to use the rod with such viciousness that it could actually cause harm to the child? Answer: It does not appear to be so, but we aren't really privy.
Who administered the rod on the children? Answer: the parents?
Were the parents charged? Answer: apparently but they were given immunity to testify against the pastor? So in essence the parents were relived of any liability for their own actions as long as they were willing to point their finger at the pastor.
Does this case set a bad precedent? Answer: you bet it does.
Did your parents ever spank you? Would your parents have been guilty of a crime in Wisconsin?
Will this case eventually be used to prohibit anyone from advocating that parents tell their children that homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God? Answer: Undoubtedly. It is already a criminal offense in Canada.
The Wisconsin case was particularly egregious, but both liberals and conservatives regularly flout the Constitution and the concept of limited government, one in the name of "social justice", the other in the name of "law 'n' order."
Problem. The Bible doesn’t say to strike the child with the rod.
If my parents beat me with a spoon until I was bruised when I was two months old I wouldnt have specific memories of it but would probably have the emotional scars that this demented psycho does (he was probably abused similarly) as well as all of his defenseless child victims. Preaching to others to break the law in private (so there are no witnesses) like he did is clearly against the law and should be.
If you believe that the Bible directs us to behave in such a way then I can't help you, but don't expect sympathy from a jury because the US Constitution doesnt protect this.
LOL!
The bible clearly delineates between the "rod" which was used to provide corporal punishment and the "staff" which is used to gently lead someone in the right direction.
To say that the Bible does not say to strike the child with the rod is ludicrous. To simply say that correcting a child verbally is using the rod is clearly a stretch since Proverbs 29:15 states that it is necessary to use BOTH the Rod AND reproof to impart wisdom.
Now there is no commandment to use a rod (i.e. physical punishment), but there is an admonishment to do so and there is a warning that the man who refuses to use the rod HATES his son.
These are the facts of the Bible. You can ignore them and even twist the scriptures to show some alternate meaning. But the meaning of this passage is as old as the bible itself and only in the last half century has anyone tried to pretend that the verses about using the rod to correct a child does not mean actually striking the child with the rod.
Wisconsin is free to outlaw striking the children with any object including an open palm. But that does not mean that the Bible did not teach that using such a method for correction and imparting wisdom was not only acceptable but advised.
So the question is now whether it is a felony to read these verses out loud in Wisconsin? If some parishioner takes these verses as a license to beat their child, then it would appear that the pastor who taught this as a biblical truth could be convicted of a felony.
This is a bad precedent. Not unexpected. But certainly bad.
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