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"Anything" except the State Department records which show that he was born in Kenya-which is my point.

Sorry, but that's not inherently true. The statements only make an affirmative, but vague declaration. There's nothing to indicate that they are comprehensively referencing ALL records that are on file and/or that the records all contain the same information. Remember, I said they changed the verbiage. This means the actual birth certificate could say born in Kenya, while the "vital records" and "original records" could claim birth in Hawaii.

How many people would have to be involved in a deception which can only be described as Clintonesque and maintain silence to this day? The people quoted by you, the governor who says he saw the records or whatever he says he saw,- there must be more.

We know that both Governor Lingle and Governor Abercrombie have lied. The latter said something was "written down" in the archives, except that the state archives contain no records newer than 75 years old. Unless Obama is a vampire, there's nothing written down in the state archives ... at least not an official birth record. As for how many other people are involved, it doesn't have to be very many at all; the directors of health and the attorney general. There are only a handful of people who have direct access to the inspection of these records, so no one else would need to be involved except by unwittingly repeating the false claims of these officials.

Please have a look at my post #160 which outlines my understanding of the language. I don't know how important this argument is. I am locked into a fatuous argument about whether there is a conspiracy in Hawaii or whether Hawaii is capable of a conspiracy to commit electoral fraud on the United States.

I do not doubt the possibility of a conspiracy, I simply say it is not a likely scenario.

All of this must be considered in the context of public opinion and a court proceeding. The former has not been won with conspiracy theories so far and the latter has not been won for want of standing. Conspiracy theories do not help the latter either.

We both hold open the possibility that, assuming Obama's will last released certificate is a counterfeit, the Hawaii records can be the product of false representation rendering the president United States not only not a natural born citizen but not a citizen at all.