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Vital Records Indicate Obama Not Born In Hawaii Hospital (PART 3)
thedailypen.blogspot.com ^ | 3/12/2012 | Penbrook Johannson and Daniel Crosby

Posted on 03/13/2012 3:39:58 PM PDT by rxsid

"VITAL RECORDS INDICATE OBAMA NOT BORN IN HAWAII HOSPITAL (PART 3)

DIRTY LITTLE SECRET: Historical evidence provided by the National Center for Health Statistics and the U.S. Reference Library System now confirms the information appearing within the image of Obama’s alleged 1961 “Certificate of Live Birth” disregards his actual foreign birthplace while, instead, providing a statistically based “geographic allocation” which is a result of a widely misunderstood natality data reporting policy which began in 1950. Stalling for four years since Obama announced his candidacy in February of 2007, under mounting political pressures and legal challenges, the White House unveiled a lone scrap of counterfeit information in the form of a desolate internet image which, after a six month criminal investigation, now confirms that Obama’s presidency is the single greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people.
By Penbrook Johannson and Daniel Crosby

NEW YORK, NY – Barack Obama has misled millions into believing he is eligible to hold the office of the U.S. presidency by exploiting a little known secret about his Hawaiian-based natal records which were issued in conjunction with a commonly used, but publicly misunderstood, vital statistics reporting anomaly used to allocate birthplace according to residency by the State of Hawaii in 1961.
...
As early as 1934, this arbitrary, but necessary method was enacted by the U.S. Census Bureau and later written into law with the passage of the Model State Vital Statistics Act of 1942. It was then fully adopted by all state-level vital records agencies, including those within the then territory of Hawaii, in 1950 in order to improve the collaborative accuracy of data harvested by America’s decadal census and statistics reported annually by state vital records agencies.
...
The birthplace shown on a birth certificate is entered as the result of the mother’s place of residence, not the location of the occurrence of the birth.
...
As discussed previously in parts one and two of this report, the combination of Hawaii’s unique culture, isolated geographic characteristics, unfettered immigration policy and municipal development challenges in the 1960s prompted the use of vital records registration protocols by the State of Hawaii’s Department of Health which undermine the reliability of birth certificate information as a means of determining the natural-born citizenship of any individual.

However, it is now clear that Obama exploited the existence of a widely misunderstood natal data reporting method implemented by the federal government, 11 years before his birth certificate was issued, based on an arbitrary statistical application which classifies the actual place of birth by allocating it as occurring in the same location as the mother’s “place of residence”. This allocation is made regardless of the actual location of the birth because the data provided about the birth to the Census Bureau is used for calculating the impact of natality on resident population and, therefore, must be recorded by the registrar using the same criteria used to count those defined as residents by the Census.

The allocation of births to “place of residence” protocol was implemented sporadically beginning in 1935 to provide for statistical integrity between decadal Census data collection and more frequently collected natality rates taken from real-time birth registrations. Prior to the implementation of the policy, the accumulative affect of non-resident and foreign birth statistics on U.S. birth volumes caused a skewing of natality rates when compared to Census population rate data. These errors had to be corrected in order to use the data for accurately measuring resources in developing public health services, municipal infrastructure and women’s reproductive health research.

Between 1937 and 1949, the NCHS published the annual version of its statistical reporting manuals containing a section called “Vital Statistics of the U.S., Part II Geographic Classification By Place of Residence” which explains, among many other arbitrary rules, the reasoning and methods used to show natal statistics for foreign-born children of U.S. resident mothers.

The manuals repetitively explain that the tabulation of vital statistics taken from birth certificates, on a “place-of-residence” basis, requires that the information given on the certificate must be allowed “to be interpreted in such a way” as to afford statistical classifications of birth geography used to calculate natality rates which are comparable with statistical classifications of population geography used to account census data.

This means the Hawaiian registrar was/is directed to record the place of birth as being the same as the mother's place of residence, regardless of where it actually occurred. This explains why Obama’s alleged 1961 “Certificate of Live Birth” states that his birthplace was in Hawaii even though he was not likely born there. His birth affected the population of the community where his mother lived, not where she gave birth to him.

Since the Bureau of Census held authority over both the implementation of the census and the standards for collecting and reporting vital records until the 1960s, this policy was implemented using the census’ population enumeration protocols as the standard by which all vital statistics data was to be collected and processed. This is logical since the collection of census data on a decadal frequency is what drives long-term public health services and municipal funding in the U.S. Of course, therefore, population is directly affected by statistics taken from vital records documenting birth data, as well as mortality data.

The NCHS assumed authority over vital statistics management under the U.S. Department of Health, Welfare and Education when the National Vital Statistics Division and the Office of Public Health Survey were combined in 1960.

The Origins of Birthplace Allocation By “Place of Residence”

The Vital Statistics Instruction Manual (VSIM) and Vital Statistics of the U.S. Report state:

Historical information referencing “resort states” provides a weighty indictment against Obama’s claim to Hawaiian birth origins. The resort states in the U.S. in 1961 were Florida, Nevada (Las Vegas) and Hawaii. An analysis of the changes in population outside of urban areas of these states confirms this report’s accurate assessment. Hawaii’s population outside of Honolulu increased by 97% between 1950 and 1960. This rate is the highest behind Florida’s, during this same time, whose population rate outside of Miami increased by 161% due to a flood of Cuban aliens fleeing Castro’s communist regime, and Las Vegas’ population which exploded between 1950 and 1960 as a result of that state’s legalization of gambling, prostitution and the development of Las Vegas’ Sunset Strip casinos.

Beginning in 1950, all natality data was exclusively reported based on “place of residence” of the mother. The manual for that year states:

“…births and deaths were assigned to the actual place of residence, no matter where they occurred.”

Birth Certi-Fiction

Based on the continued development of criteria between 1935 and 1961, the alleged year of Obama’s birth in Hawaii, the definition of residency in relation to birth statistics collection was refined to provide more accuracy in natality rates so as to demonstrate the impact of births on resident population, therefore, providing better Census and Vital Record data collaboration, without regard for the actual location of the occurrence of the birth.

These revisions included the standardization of the template form of the U.S. “Certificate of Live Birth”, in coordination with the Public Health Conference on Vital Records and Statistics in 1956, which would clearly provide referential uniformity for NCHS coding efforts when classifying geography of vital records origination. The revisions allowed coding and data collection from the “Location of Birth” and “Usual Residence of Mother” entry boxes from all certificates in the same manner, not just for those recording births occurring in the U.S., but also for births occurring to U.S. residents, anywhere.
...
The standard certificate used for births occurring in the U.S. must also be used for births occurring outside of the U.S. to resident mothers, but both circumstances had to provide the same formatting of information for data classification. Therefore, the location of the birth must state that the birth occurred in the U.S. in order for data from the certificate to be reported as a birth which impacts U.S. and state population figures. Simply stated, there is not a separate certificate for births occurring in the U.S. and births occurring outside of the U.S. to residents of the U.S., but both circumstances are recorded as births which, obviously, impact the population and municipal services of the U.S.

The problem with this misrepresentation of information is that the NCHS only defines a “resident” of the U.S., not a “citizen” of the U.S. The difference is obvious. Essentially, Obama has exploited this NCHS statistical protocols used to report natal statistics in order to declare himself a natural-born citizen by proxy of his mother’s U.S. residency, without being forced to be accountable for his own Constitutionally disqualified “citizenship” status as president. Since births are recorded in real time while populations are measured every ten years, the VSIM manual actually acknowledges that the necessity for such interpretation “introduces arbitrary and controversial factors into the procedure of allocation” by each state. As we now know, the factors applied by the State of Hawaii in granting Obama’s native birth registration has been nothing but arbitrary and controversial.
...
With regard to Obama’s birthplace, the only documented reference appears on a digitally fabricated image, proven to be a forgery, posted to the internet and ignorantly endorsed and accepted without inquiry by many. However, we now know that Obama’s actual birthplace information was recorded in four separate sources, not just a birth certificate, by four different agencies in 1961.

His birthplace was recorded by the foreign health agency with jurisdiction over the facility where he emerged from his mother’s womb. It was then recorded by the local registrar’s office upon registration in Hawaii before being reallocated to his mother’s place of residence. It was then recorded by the State of Hawaii’s main office prior to being tabulated and coded for reporting to the NCHS. And, it was transcribed for record exchange with the foreign health agency and recorded by the National Center for Health Statistics for storage to data file tape currently residing at the National Archives and Records Administration, from which Obama restricted its release with Executive Order 13489.

THE END OF THE ROAD: FOREIGN BIRTH TRANSCRIPT EXCHANGE AND DATA TAPE FILE RECORD

The instructions for allocating births to “place of residence” were published in the Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, Part 1: “Coding and Punching Geographic and Personal Particulars of Births, Deaths and Stillbirths Occurring During 1961.” An internal office copy of this document resides in the NCHS main office in Hyattsville, Maryland, and was made available for in-house review for this report, but was not provided for public disbursement. However, it was provided to all state Health agencies by the vital records coding regulatory office of the National Center for Health Statistics Office of Vital Statistics in 1961.

The report states:

"Allocation of births to place of residence. The allocation of live births to “place of residence” is made according to the same general principles as the allocation of other vital events in the U.S. In the case of births, the usual residence of the mother is considered to be the place of residence of the child, and the allocation of the birth to the mother’s place of residence is not affected by the mother’s length of stay in the location in which the birth occurs. For the purpose of coding natality transcripts, these rules have been expanded in definite coding instructions which state the procedure followed in each case.” "
According to the procedures for birth allocation to “place of residence” the NCHS outlines those used for this statistical reporting method as follows:

1. Natality data should be compiled so as to correspond with enumerated populations (Census data) on which rates are based. Each birth should be assigned to the area which was the “usual place of residence” of the mother.

2. Mothers who, at the time of the birth, had been living more than one year in a community are considered residents of that community even though some other place may be stated on the certificate.

3. Mothers of births which occurred in nonresident institutions such as hospitals, T.B. sanatoriums, convalescent homes, jails, etc., are reallocated to the usual place of residence if they were confined in the institution for less than one year.

4. Mothers in resident institutions, where length of stay is usually extended, such as mental institutions, orphanages, retirement homes, homes for the blind, disabled and deaf, etc. are reallocated to their prior place of residence.

5. Births to mothers whose usual place of residence is a foreign country or a United States possession outside of the United States are not reallocated to the usual place of residence.

6. Infants born at locations other than the place of residence of the mother are reallocated to the place of residence of the mother.

Essentially, this protocol instructed the Hawaiian Registrars Office to oversee the content of Obama’s birth certificate in such a way that his natal statistics would be tabulated as a result of an allocation of his birth to Ann Dunham’s “place of residence” in the U.S., regardless of the actual location of the occurrence of the birth. Simply, in the interest of data uniformity between the census bureau and the NCHS, Obama’s birth certificate was required to show his birth place as being the same as the mother’s residence because his birth impacted the population and municipal services of Hawaii, not those of the foreign government and population where his birth actually occurred.

The allocation of Obama’s birth to “place of residence” in 1961 was deeply subjected to the Hawaiian municipal agency’s need for conveying natal statistics and census data which would demonstrate the most need for funding and resources needed to expand its public health services, meet infrastructure demands of the population and provide natal-health care for future birth rates. The only way provided by the federal government to do this was by allocation to place of residence using the standard birth report form known as a U.S. “Certificate of Live Birth”.
...
The 1961 Vital Statistics of the U.S. Report, Volume 1: Natality states, “The principal value of vital statistics data is obtained through the presentation of such data, which are computed by relating the vital events of a class (Hawaiian geography) to population of a similarly defined class (Hawaiian residents). Vital statistics and population statistics must, therefore, be classified according to similarly defined systems and tabulated in comparable groups.

Logically, births and deaths effect population. Therefore, the NCHS employs methods for accounting natal statistics in the U.S. which serve the interests of public health services and municipal agencies which operate on resources provided directly as result of census and vital statistics data. This situation was especially attributable to the new state of Hawaii’s government, just after the 1960 Census in which it was included for the first time.

The 1961 Vital Statistics Instruction manual states: "For State totals, only those persons who cross State lines need be considered in a reallocation by “place of residence”, since any movement within the State is irrelevant."

In conclusion, with regard to the birth of Barack Obama, the principal value of his individual natal data is obtained by presenting that data in relationship to the community and geography of which he becomes a member as a result of his birth, not migration. It is meaningless for a community to present foreign births on a birth certificate in a manner which prevents the impact of that birth data from being considered in the resident population of the community which is affects.

The allocation of birth place to “place of residence” is a highly significant declaration in determining the manner in which Obama’s foreign birth was recorded, collected, tabulated and reported by the State of Hawaii and how that birth information led him to falsely claim that he is a natural born citizen. Combining the allocation of “place of residence” for birthplace with Hawaii’s unique geographic characteristics, along with its unique indigenous cultural history, we now understand how the State of Hawaii Department of Health issued a birth certificate for Obama’s foreign birth which shows Hawaii as the place of birth by proxy."

Complete article: http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2012/03/vital-records-indicate-obama-not-born.html


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Reference
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; naturalborncitizen; obama
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To: Seizethecarp

You really should reconsider IF Kezia and the kenyan were married at all...or if Kezia was the wife of the older half-brother with whom the kenyan attended the school at Maseno:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2858622/posts?page=37#37

Ever ask yourself why it was necessary to write that Kezia continued to have children to the kenyan, when he was living in Nairobi and married to Ruth?


141 posted on 03/14/2012 4:03:41 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Seizethecarp; little jeremiah

NOTE: the man on the left, he wears the hat of a clan leader, he carries the symbolic whisk.Is he the elder half-brother, Joseph/Yusuf...who left the school at Maseno two years before the kenyan-son-of-a-goat-herder?

He would be about 74 years old in this image, the son of Onyango and Sarah, who is probably only some 13 or 14 years older.

If Yusuf, who is shown on the Obama family tree as the son of Onyango and Sarah didn't exist, then who would be Clan Elder? ANSWER = MALIK. But he isn't, and cannot be, while Yusuf still lives.

142 posted on 03/14/2012 4:16:59 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: little jeremiah

Rewards

143 posted on 03/14/2012 4:39:45 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Mr. K

I assume they picked the DOB for the boy known now as BHO because that was around the time he arrived in HI. How old he was is anyone’s guess. The original boy known as BHO (the dark boy in the photo of two boys) looks to be about 1 year older than the younger light boy.


144 posted on 03/14/2012 4:51:12 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Fred Nerks
“But it sure does LOOK LIKE ‘per grandmother’ attempted to obtain a CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH sometime in 1982 on the strength of this document being FILED.”

I agree. But it can't be genuine with the parts of the signatures from a previously disclosed BC evident in the signature fields, just as they are shown in the whited out version. No genuine BC could incorporate elements from a different BC.

I regard the “Blaine BC” forgery as yet another chilling demonstration of the cunning of the enemies of truth and the extent they will go to fool people trying to uncover the truth about Obama...just like the “Lavender BC.”

145 posted on 03/14/2012 4:59:54 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: little jeremiah

hard to tell how much older...

146 posted on 03/14/2012 5:01:38 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Seizethecarp

I agree, now that it seems you have been able to show that the template existed before the ‘Blaine document’ was floated...but it still bothers me that the ‘chosen’ date shown on the Blaine document is the same as the birth/death announcement for Virginia. Extraordinary coincidence...?
Or just plain chilling.


147 posted on 03/14/2012 5:06:15 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: rxsid

“As has already been stated, “probably bigamy” wasn’t the reason Sr’s Visa was not renewed.”

I disagree. See and note collusion between Harvard and INS and the reference to uncertainty over number of wives:

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/28/harvard-wanted-barack-obamas-dad-deported/

“Harvard wanted Barack Obama’s Dad Deported”

begin quote

The Arizona Independent filed a FOIA request respecting the President’s father and reports this is among the
information they found in the immigration files:

1. “ The memo refers to Obama Sr.’s plans to attend the University of Hawaii for one more year to obtain his bachelor’s degree in economics, and that his spouse, a United States citizen, plans to work at the university.

“They have one child born Honolulu on 8/4/1961 – Barack Obama II, child living with mother (she lives with her parents & subject resides at 1482 Alencastre St.),” the memo states.”

2.” [T]he agency “recommend(s) that Subject be closely questioned before another extension is granted – and denial be considered. If his USC (United States Citizen) wife tries to petition for him make sure an investigation is conducted as to the bona-fide of the marriage.”

3.”Documents show that Obama, Sr. was denied an extension on his student visa in July, 1964, in part because Harvard University, where Obama, Sr., was a Ph.D. candidate, sought his removal. Obama Sr. eventually left the United States willingly after becoming an illegal alien for remaining in the country past the expiration of his visa.
An INS investigator, M.F. McKeon, wrote “They (Harvard officials) weren’t very impressed with him and asked us to hold up action on his application until they decided what action they could take in order to get rid of him. They were apparently having difficulty with his financial arrangements and couldn’t seem to figure out how many wives he had.”
Documents show that Harvard officials considered Obama, Sr. to be a “slippery character,” and conspired with the INS to have him deported.”

end quote


148 posted on 03/14/2012 5:09:49 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp

I see Harvard’s motives for wanting to see the backside of him as a combination of events, they had parents of one girl complaining about their daughter’s relationship with him, he maintained he had a wife named ANN S DUNHAM in Hawaii, (that was on the Immigration docs, after the original name of ‘wife’ was crossed out) another student from Kenya was apparently making plans to fly to the UK for an xxxxxx (deleted) and he was attempting to obtain a further extension to complete his Phd, so they told him to complete it in Kenya, they had no more funds.
He must have been a PITA from start to finish.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein-Obama-Sr-Immigration-File


149 posted on 03/14/2012 5:25:34 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks
“Ever ask yourself why it was necessary to write that Kezia continued to have children to the kenyan, when he was living in Nairobi and married to Ruth?”

Because BHO Sr. was a drunken sociopath?

I find no reason to question Kezia’s own account as reported in this Daily Mail piece, with I will re-post for noobs:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506338/Barack-Obamas-stepmother-living-Bracknell-reveals-close-bond-—mother.html

begin quote

What he failed to tell his first wife was that he had also met a second new woman, an American teacher called Ruth.
Nor did he tell her, on his return to Kenya in 1965, that she had become his third wife.

Kezia said: “I'd moved to the family compound in Alego. When Barack got back, he came to see me and said, ‘I don't have a job or a house yet. When I get settled I will come back for you.’”

But Barack Snr then lost both legs in a car crash coming back from a nightclub - and Kezia discovered the truth.

She said: “When I went to see him in the hospital I thought, ‘What is that lady in there with him for?’

end quote

150 posted on 03/14/2012 5:32:15 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp
What he failed to tell his first wife was that he had also met a second new woman, an American teacher called Ruth. Nor did he tell her, on his return to Kenya in 1965, that she had become his third wife.

Your devotion to the written word, albeit propaganda is becoming legendary in my mind...it's here we split company my Friend, you can't see past the putty, without which the glass in the window panes fall out...IS THERE one solid piece of information in that journalist's fantasy? None that I can see.

Kezia said: “I'd moved to the family compound in Alego. When Barack got back, he came to see me and said, ‘I don't have a job or a house yet. When I get settled I will come back for you.’”

He was living in Nairobi with Ruth, working for an oil company. And you believe Ruth was going to accommodate a village girl with a number of children - who more than likely were NOT the children of the kenyan-son-of-a-goat-herder? Please...

But Barack Snr then lost both legs in a car crash coming back from a nightclub - and Kezia discovered the truth.

That was YEARS after he returned to Kenya...and that doesn't hang together either, because he was living in Nairobi - and I think he had his first major accident AFTER he and Ruth were already separated...in the early 70's...so the journalist is trying to tell us it took Kezia more than FIVE YEARS to find out he was married to Ruth?

She said: “When I went to see him in the hospital I thought, ‘What is that lady in there with him for?’

When he was in hospital (he had two major accidents, so which one?) he and Ruth were already separated. Sorry, it just doesn't wash.

151 posted on 03/14/2012 5:56:07 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks

Among my very small list of skills, I happen to be rather skilled at guessing babies and toddlers ages. Maybe because I did lots of child care? I don’t know...

But they look to be about a year apart; not just the sizes, but the maturity in the faces. The lighter boy may tall for his age, and the darker boy likely is not, so the size differential in height is not so telling. The younger boy has a much smaller head and face and more of a “baby” look to him, the darker boy looks much more mature, does not have the baby belly, has more muscular development.

I’d like to say 2 to 2 1/2 for the lighter boy and almost 4 for the older boy. If we ever find out then I’ll know how close I am.


152 posted on 03/14/2012 6:01:41 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Fred Nerks; LucyT; Danae
Kezia said: “I'd moved to the family compound in Alego. When Barack got back, he came to see me and said, ‘I don't have a job or a house yet. When I get settled I will come back for you.’”

“He was living in Nairobi with Ruth, working for an oil company. And you believe Ruth was going to accommodate a village girl with a number of children - who more than likely were NOT the children of the kenyan-son-of-a-goat-herder?”

No, of course I don't believe that because BHO Sr had no intention of bringing Kezia to Nairobi to be “accommodated” by Ruth. BHO Sr. was obviously stringing Kezia along and cheating on both of the wives, which is consistent with the narrative and his behavior documented by U of HI, Harvard and INS in the US.

BHO Sr. was not a bigamist, he was a trigamist. And these were NOT Muslim plural marriages. Kezia’s son was not raised Muslim because he converted as an adult. Ruth's surviving son, Mark, was raised Jewish by his Jewish mother who did not convert.

Sociopath BHO Sr. was pretending to be married to Kezia while in his predominately non-Muslim tribal village where Kezia was living in the family compound with her two small children fathered him.

153 posted on 03/14/2012 6:18:40 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: little jeremiah
We might never find out...

your observation indicates that the family group photograph was taken not very long after the 'two little boys' - the dark boy seems to be about 4 going on 5, and Mark - how old would you estimate him to be? I am under the impression that photograph dates from around late 1966.

154 posted on 03/14/2012 6:18:45 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Seizethecarp

You have not addressed why Kezia would not have known Ruth existed until some FIVE years after Ruth arrived in Kenya a few weeks after the kenyan returned from the US in August, and married Ruth on Christmas Eve, 1964.

Your article clearly states that Kezia maintains she didn’t know about Ruth until she met her in hospital...and now you need to find just when he had his first major accident - WAS IT AFTER he and Ruth separated, but before he came to Hawaii in supposedly 1970, where an image with a christmas tree shows a walking stick.


155 posted on 03/14/2012 6:30:24 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: WhizCodger

Freepmail on the way.


156 posted on 03/14/2012 6:37:19 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Stand with God and Sarah, the Gipper and Newt will be standing next to you.)
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To: Fred Nerks

Mark looks about 3 1/2 to at most 4, he looks tall for his age, long legs but still a baby face; his mother looks the same height as the Kenyan, which would make her a bit on the tallish side.


157 posted on 03/14/2012 6:52:03 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Fred Nerks
“You have not addressed why Kezia would not have known Ruth existed until some FIVE years after Ruth arrived in Kenya a few weeks after the kenyan returned from the US in August, and married Ruth on Christmas Eve, 1964.”

Kezia explained it. BHO Sr. lied to her and left her in the family compound in the tribal village while he lived in Nairobi with a much “higher status” (in his mind, I suspect) white woman. I doubt Ruth knew about Kezia either.

BHO Sr. was a drunken, lying, narcissistic serial bigamist. I don't see the mystery.

158 posted on 03/14/2012 6:59:21 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: Fred Nerks

Re-thinking - Mark looks like at most 3. I think he’s tall.


159 posted on 03/14/2012 7:05:40 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: little jeremiah

yes, Mark has long legs, but I still see him as being not much more than two - at most. Pity it’s the only image we have, and Mark has removed the two little boys photograph from his website.


160 posted on 03/14/2012 7:09:26 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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