Once Again I will Posit Adoption for Barack Obama.

Various | 3/1/2012 | DiogenesLamp

[little jeremiah]

It’s been a long time coming and it’s very well deserved.

[bluecat6]

Looking at Fred Nerks post about #271 and post #279 and this post with the actual image is it possible that ‘Soebarkah’ is not a persons name at all.

But could it just be the village/city name?

We are so use to the nomenclature of city, state here in the US. But was Indonesia divided into provinces or states? Even if it was would there there be enough villages or cities with the same name to worry about using the province or state in identifying a village/city?

And if the President of the Country was from or had connections to that village (as FN says in post #271) it must be well known.

So is this name not a persons name at all - is it just a place?

[mojitojoe]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2727701/posts

[azishot]

Mark.

[DiogenesLamp]

What about wedding pictures? Surely someone must have taken photos of the wedding.

If there was a wedding, i'm pretty sure it was a strictly legal affair in front of a Judge. No Marriage Certificate has been produced, so it's anybody's guess as to whether or not there actually was a wedding. I know it's listed under the marriage index, but butterzillion has pointed out a lot of inconsistencies with these indexes from Hawaii.

I have long suspected that Barack Obama Sr is not actually Barry's father, and that Family Friend Frank Marshall Davis was. I believe those naked pictures of Stanley Ann Dunham were taken in December of 1960, just a few weeks after she became pregnant. If they were not, they had to be taken after 1962 when she returned to Hawaii. Since she shows no sign of stretch marks, i'm assuming they were taken at the earlier time.

[DiogenesLamp]

Photo from the bachelor party.

I thought that was the going away party?

[DiogenesLamp]

I trust nothing about them...NOTHING... too many inconsistencies and things that defy logic. I don’t think there is a single thing that could come out that would shock me.

I agree.

[DiogenesLamp]

Somewhat. I have seen my fair share of idiocy/incompetence on the part of government employees. A few things still bother, however:

1. Why would HDOH email a copy of the PDF construction to the WH?

I don't know that they emailed it to the White House, they may have given the attorney a copy of it when he was there, or emailed it to him, and he in turn gave it to the Whitehouse Staff. I'm assuming it was always their intention to post it on the White House web site, so they probably requested it from the get-go.

I will say once again, that NOBODY realized that the file would contain it's construction information. Not the DOH Staff, not the Attorney, not anyone at the White House. I think they only discovered it after people like us made a big deal about it. There are a lot of people who get tripped up from posting photos because they are unaware of the Metafile information contained in them. I think this worked out exactly the same. Everyone handling it was unaware that it would contain this information.

2. If this kind of "built" document is a commonplace occurrence rather than a one-time event, you'd think that they would have the process systematized, and we should not see anomalies such as "TXE" and smiley faces in the registrar's stamp in the "document".

When you are copying and pasting stuff, you might not notice one letter out of place. As for the "X" itself, People have argued that the stamp that originally made that image must have had a bit of fluff on it that picked up some ink, and left that "x" imprint where the "H" is supposed to be. I don't have a better explanation.

3. Why go all the way to Hawaii to physically pick up hard copies of the documents only to not go to the trouble of scanning the physical document?

As I mentioned earlier, I think they ALWAYS intended to put an electronic copy on the White House Website. They may have specifically requested one. The DOH staff gave them the one they had created, not realizing that it contained the evidence of it's creation.

Think about this. If the document *IS* a replacement birth certificate after a previous adoption was annulled or modified, the Lawyer Handling the case may have been sent a copy for his approval. (In other words, to make sure they were correctly complying with what he requested from the Judge, and therefore what the Judge had ordered them to do.)

Another point I have mentioned before is Who else would have access to a data base with the sort of information necessary to put this thing together? Who else would have copies of the Dr's signature, and Stanley Ann's Signature, etc? DOH Hawaii! We absolutely know this sort of information is in *THEIR* database. They are the only Entity *KNOWN* to have the means to create it.

4. If I'm reading you correctly, why would the PDF file sent by HDOH not have the green crosshatch?

Because none of the Original birth certificates from that time period had it. If it's supposed to be a copy of an original, it won't have the crosshatch. It is my understanding that copy protection paper wasn't even invented until 1968. Apart from that, the photos we have seen of the actual "physical" document show no crosshatch pattern.

If such were the case, where then would WH staff have gotten such a background to add to the image that they were going to put up?

I think it was easily obtainable off the net. The question is why they thought it was a good idea to add the crosshatch, and my thinking is that it was probably intended to cover up some details that they didn't want people to notice. There is an article over at the Daily Pen which purports to explain those pencil marks all over the document. Either that, or the White House staff are just idiots, and since they are Democrats, I would buy that theory too.

You've mentioned previously that you yourself were adopted and that a birth certificate was "built" for you six years after the fact. Does your "built" bc look like the "Obama" long form, complete with signatures, archaic-looking type and markings and whatnot?

Yes it does, complete with the Dr's Signature and everything. This confused me for awhile, because the Dr's signature represents an attestation to a fact. Did they seek out this Dr six years later to get him to sign it, or did they simply copy his signature from the original document? Also, How can a Dr attest to things which are not true? (Mother and Father, etc.) Looking it over I found the answer. Where the Dr Signed it, it says:

I hereby certify that this child was born alive on the date stated above.

The wording solves all the problems. He is not attesting that the document is original, or that the mother and father are either. He is only attesting that the child was born alive on the date (original date of birth) stated above. I think this allows them to copy it, and it still comprises a true fact.

Your theory may lie within the realm of possibility (he11, anything is possible with this guy), but a simpler answer would be that whatever "Obama"'s attorney picked up in Hawaii looks nothing like what was posted on the WH servers, and that the image displayed, even if created in the bowels of the HDOH, was not manufactured as part of an above-board, legal process within the constraints of Hawaii law, but rather in secret, and known to only a few highly trusted individuals.

It's definitely not above board, but it is very likely completely legal.

Wasn't it put out last year that a forgery had been created for Barry and inserted into the HDOH records, around February 2011 I believe it was?

My theory is not inconsistent with this statement. If his attorneys got a judge to amend his birth records, a forgery would have been created (legally, by DOH) and inserted into the record. A *LOT* of people do not understand that forging birth certificates is part of the Job at any DOH. This unfamiliarity with the process cause problems, even with law enforcement who ought to know better. Read this article.

http://73adoptee.blogspot.com/2008/10/adoptee-denied-drivers-license-in.html

[DiogenesLamp]

Your version has just about as much chance of being right as mine (or many others).

I am only pointing out that there are other 'explanations', and getting you to consider them. I do not care nor expect you to drop your position and adopt mine. It's not about winning, being 'right', at least to me.

It's about trying to get all the food laid out on the table before I eat. Everyone brings something different to the table.

If not, it would be a boring meal.

I am also only concerned with getting to what is the truth. I don't even know if my theory is correct, only that it explains some things that don't seem to make sense otherwise.

What is your theory? I don't think i've ever discussed this issue with you before.

[UCANSEE2]

I thought that was the going away party?

Well, given the time schedule, it was both.

[UCANSEE2]

What is your theory?

That there must be a reason why the Chicago crew went to extensive lengths to hide Obama's true records .

That as long as Obama hides the information, people will continue to suspect the worst.

Personally I suspect he was raised, by his grandparents and his mother's 'influence' to be a communist/socialist infiltrator, regardless to whom his biological parents were.

His higher education days were filled with Alinksy and Black Liberation.

He IS, what he LEARNED.

[UCANSEE2]

(oops).

Personally I suspect he was raised by his grandparents and his mother’s ‘influence’ to be a communist/socialist infiltrator regardless to whom his biological parents were.

[DiogenesLamp]

Apart from that, the Family lived in Oklahoma and Texas before moving to Washington.

Why don't you stop posting your BS lies here!

First of all, it's not lies. It is my understanding. You can suggest I am mistaken, but to say I am lying you need to demonstrate intent. We all hear things that later turn out to not be true. We are not lying, we are just mistaken.

As for my comment above, do you actually need me to PROVE that the Dunham Family Lived in Oklahoma, then Texas before moving to Washington? Fine.

Here is a reference to them living in Ponca City Oklahoma when Stanly Ann was three. There is a photograph of her attending grade school there.

The Dunhams also lived in Vernon/Wichita-Falls Texas, for three years I believe.

I believe this is a photo of her from Vernon Texas.

So where am I lying? Or even mistaken?

[DiogenesLamp]

You argument is that because they had a black police officer they must not have been prejudiced. I don’t think that is adequate to prove such a thing. As I mentioned, according to Frank Marshall Davis’s book, “living the blues” they were very prejudiced in Kansas during the 1920s-1930s. He was there, and that is what *HE* said.

[DiogenesLamp]

I think Madelyn Dunham was VERY ashamed of Barry...

Please don't be dense. She was ashamed in the beginning. I didn't think I needed to spell that out. The Fact that Stanley Ann had to leave Hawaii to go to school in Washington instead of just continuing her classes in Hawaii, ought to tell you there was a big hooforah about the whole incident. Also, when your daughter has your first Grandchild, you TELL your co-workers, unless there is a reason why you don't want to. Many grandparents keep pictures of their grandchildren on their desks.

[DiogenesLamp]

Sadly, although dedicated, you are not a researcher, you are trying to stuff your theories down the throats of everyone who reads here, and that means there is no progress.

I object to both characterizations. I do plenty of research, but most of what I do is on the issue of Natural born Citizen, not as much on the goings about of the Dunham Family. Check out some of my contributions to the research thread.

Secondly, I am not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat. I am pointing out an idea that makes sense to me. You are free to disagree.

In your mind, there are only very limited possibilities;

Yes. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Unless the evidence is VERY compelling, i'm not going to spend a lot of time on suppositions which deviate too widely from what most people are familiar with. The Obama File has an excellent collection of data on this subject. Any theory needs to fit data such as he has collected.

AND ABOVE ALL ELSE, STANLEY ANN DUNHAM MUST REMAIN HIS MOTHER.

If someone else is to be the mother, than existing evidence must be refuted, and unknown evidence must be presented. Currently the mountain of evidence with which I am familiar is on the side of Stanley Ann being the mother. Till I see better evidence indicating someone else, I'll have to apply Occam's razor.

I got news for you.There’s a very very good argument that she wasn’t. (And I’ve got a son with a chin just like Stanley Armour Dunham, but he’s not related to him either.)

I have no doubt that unrelated peoples can resemble. There is a Canadian Photographer that makes a point to find such people and photograph them together.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-416455/Dead-Ringers--photographer-finds-people-look-identical-biological-link.html

http://www.francoisbrunelle.com/index.php?id=3&lang=En

However, in Barry's case, his resemblance is to a relative from whom he is a direct descendant. Both his Aunt Virginia Goeldner and his Uncle Ralph Dunham have remarked how exactly he looks like Stanley Dunham. There is no good reason to believe it is not genetic.

Open your mind.

Show me something convincing.

[DiogenesLamp]

And here they are....with a summary

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2712867/posts?page=1

http://www.scribd.com/doc/54015762/Barack-Hussein-Obama-Sr-Immigration-File

Excellent work by matt1234.

[DiogenesLamp]

First. Stop posting lies.

First, explain what it is you think is a lie. (I have no idea to what you are referring.)

Second. No one is interested in what you "think".

Now who's lying? If you aren't interested, why are you responding? (A LOT of people seem interested, judging by all the commentary directed at me.)

Third. Document your comments with links to back up your information, or get off this site.

I'm sorry. I sometimes give people more credit for knowing things than I really should. It never occurred to me that you needed this documented because I thought this was already common knowledge among people discussing this issue. Here you go.

http://knol.google.com/k/president-obama-s-mother-and-grandparents-lived-in-ponca-city-oklahoma-in-early#

http://texomashomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=32911

Why are you angry with me?

[DiogenesLamp]

So is this name not a persons name at all - is it just a place?

I don't know. I think Fred knows more about this than do I. It obviously means something.

[DiogenesLamp]

Well, given the time schedule, it was both.

:)