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To: betty boop; marron; Alamo-Girl; Mind-numbed Robot; grey_whiskers; Matchett-PI; xzins; metmom
What do we mean when we say that a natural process is "random?"

What, indeed, do we mean by ‘random’?

I don’t know.

Does random mean, “designed to be unpredictable”?
Whereas “chaos” means not only unpredictable, but undesigned, and beyond control?

Anyone?

169 posted on 01/10/2012 10:23:20 AM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: YHAOS; betty boop; marron; Mind-numbed Robot; grey_whiskers; Matchett-PI; xzins; metmom; MHGinTN; ..
Truly, science has misappropriated the word "random" from mathematics.

One cannot say something is random in the system if he does not know what the system "is." The full number and types of dimensions are both unknown and unknowable. Likewise a particle or field which has no direct or indirect measurable effect cannot be said not to exist.

As used in science, the word "random" actually means "unpredictable."

As an example, if he did not know the origin of the string, a person looking at a series of numbers from the extension of Pi might conclude the numbers are random when they are in fact highly determined by calculating the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter.

Science has also misappropriated the word "information" which in mathematics (Shannon) means "the reduction of uncertainty in the receiver as it moves from a before state to an after state." As science has now misappropriated the term it basically means determinism.

Misappropriations such as these put the burden on the consumer to discover the actual meaning - but how few are willing to do the math!?

The language of mathematics is truly universal (Tegmark, Level IV etc.) and quite specific - it should not be misappropriated for reductionist investigations. e.g. by methodological naturalism.

The discipline of mathematics is rigorous. The most certain things we can declare about our observations are mathematical.

And the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the natural sciences (Wigner) is like God's copyright notice on the cosmos.

170 posted on 01/10/2012 11:33:54 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: YHAOS
Chaotic means "from a complete mathematical description of all the components of a system, one cannot determine to within arbitrary precision the mathematical description of the system at a later time" -- in other words, two initical conditions with even very tiny differences in the specifications may lead to wildly varying time histories down the road.

BTW, If you want to talk about CHAOS, YHAOS, then you may want to revisit your keyboard when you next enter your screen name.

:-)

Cheers!

171 posted on 01/10/2012 12:12:03 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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