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To: BroJoeK
I've quoted nothing from the Philadelphia convention. Explain what you think you are waiting for.

From your post #236:

Founders' expressions of Original Intent regarding secession all reflected Madison's view expressed above -- that it must be by mutual consent or "usurpations or abuses of power" having that same effect. No such condition existed in November 1860.

What you're saying is that Madison's "expression" stripped the People of the right to judge for themselves "usurpations or abuses of power", and the power of the sovereign States to reassume self-governance "by the people whensoever it shall become necessary to their happiness...".

At what point during the Philadelphia Convention was Madison's "expression", to strip the rights of We the People and the powers of the sovereign States, discussed and adopted by the Founders' as their Original Intent?

253 posted on 01/15/2012 7:36:04 AM PST by southernsunshine
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To: southernsunshine
southernsunshine: "What you're saying is that Madison's "expression" stripped the People of the right to judge for themselves "usurpations or abuses of power"..."

Sure, I understand your intense desire to put words in my mouth, but you must resist such temptations.
I've said no such thing.

What I've said -- over and over -- is that the law of contracts requires mutual consent, or a serious material breach of contract, to be desolved; and that no such condition existed on November 6, 1860 when Deep-South slave-holders first began the processes to simultaneously declare their secession and committed many acts of increasing rebellion or war.

And the serious breach of contract, as spelled out by Madison, the Virginia ratification statement and others, had to be in the form of Federal "usurpations or abuses of power".

I'm saying: since there was no "mutual consent" and no "usurpations" in November 1860, then Deep-South slave-holders' declarations of secession were not according to Founders' Original Intent, and are therefore unconstitutional.

Further, all their many acts of rebellion and war against the United States are anticipated and responses provided for in the Constitution.

Finally, when the Confederacy declared war on the United States -- on May 6, 1861 -- all questions about an alleged "right" of unilateral secession became irrelevant.

And remember: no Confederate soldier was killed by Union forces until after the Confederacy declared war on the United States.

254 posted on 01/15/2012 11:49:30 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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