Posted on 12/14/2011 4:59:02 AM PST by James Oscar
bump for later
We part on this issue - improvements are NOT small. I can "see" a person in real time - a person thousands of miles away. Same with hearing them - any phone will do. You might be right about 'smell' but many inventions extend our bodies. A plane moves us faster than our legs... cars too. Machines extend the power of our muscles beyond the wildest imaginations of a person 300 years ago...
The aid of technology has improved almost all aspects of perception, but the basic equipment you are born with to see and smell (in her opinion) are not that much changed from early man.
Her thesis revolves around the development of perception that can best be called “fourth dimensional perception” - that is the ability to revisit (in your mind) events of the past, develop an understanding of patterns in those events and to hypothesize on future events using that perceptual tool.
The “someone” is Mother Abigail who is perhaps one of the most famous posters ever on this board. Her work on SARS and Ebola pretty much are Internet folklore.
What, to be exact, she predicts is that HIV has now permeated the entire world and has embedded itself into almost every culture.
She believes that because HIV is perhaps the most mutanagenic bug on the planet, that there will soon be a mutation among the zillions made daily - which will allow the virus to be transported via cough water droplets to a new patient. (i.e. airborne transmission)
Many bad bugs have this ability to ride the massive water droplets expelled in sneezing etc. It is not uncommon at all.
She continues to point out that once in the new lungs it will set off a catastrophic series of events called a cytokine storm. The research in Spain (cited above) now appears to validate that hypothesis.
That simple mutation, in her opinion, is a worldwide game changer - on a scale we can not really grasp.
It appears to me that the number of families with premonitions of very dark clouds on the horizon is far greater than ever I imagined. Or at least that is the impression I get from the Internet and reality TV.
I hope that helps put a little finer point on the issue.
One early warning marker of a new mischief virus at work would be a sudden alarming increase of hospitalized diabetics(especialy type one as well as heavily insulin dependant type twos) going into supra hyperglycemia and diabetic ketoacidosis.
When a diabetic who has been scrupulous about maintaining his insulin levels and sugar levels finds that his levels have gone out of control; we often suspect sepsis or viral infection because of the rise of his natural glucocortical steroid levels. Stress on the immune system gives rise to increased available glucose; but without the means to process the extra available glucose(producing extra insulin when needed), a diabetic may find himself in serious difficulty.
I know we’ve had a serious influx of DKA patients where we are over a couple of days...almost like a town convention of diabetics. Some have reported recent cold or flu symptoms and i know a flu/ “pro longed cold or respiratory illness” has been making the rounds recently.
Thusly, in a future respiratory HIV plague scenario, the canaries in the coal mine may very well be suddenly massive numbers of hyperglycemic diabetics(even those with historically mild cases of DM 1 or 2) being hospitalized first even before the flu really takes hold of them!
You and Ma would have a great conversation. It is good to hear your opinion. What I will do is post what I wrote from my notes on her opinion of the “canary in the coal mine”
Remember that MA is very religious and believes these events are unfolding step by step as part of a natural evolutionary process. She points out that all species are subject to cycles of sustained growth and sudden calamity.
Anyway ...... this is her thoughts.
MA: Yes were there to be an isolated breakout and the proper barrier nursing techniques could be initiated, then the prognosis would be for containment. But that is not to be the case.
Q: I don’t understand what you mean.
MA: There is a very unusual phenomena in the world of Virology called “coincidental spontaneous mutation”. We use this term to describe an event where the same mutation breaks out in multiple locations in the same time frame.
The causality of this event is highly debated but the phenomena is well documented.
Q: Recently
MA: Very recently. In 2009 there was an event that occurred concerning the H1N1 novel virus that should have sounded the alarm bells for all those who are watching these pandemics.
There was a mutation of the H1N1 virus that occurred in Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, Ukraine, and the United States. The mutation is called H1N1/D225G.
This mutation directly attacks the lungs, causing swelling and hemorrhage. Symptoms include progressive over 38C temperatures, breathing difficulty, a dry cough producing blood, and destruction of lung tissue starting in the lower lungs. Time from onset of symptoms to death was 4-7 days.
When we performed post mortems we found the lungs were blackened, as if burnt, perhaps related to lung hemorrhage.
Both the D225G marker, a so-called ‘domain changing receptor’, and the symptoms listed above seem to link this variant to the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918.
The multiple coincidental spontaneous mutations were so startling that some people believed we had seen a test run of a biological agent. That was not true.
What we experienced was soon repeated again when clusters of Tamiflu resistance patients appeared in Wales and North Carolina. These patients all acquired an identical change in the H1N1 virus - yet lived a world apart.
It is not a new phenomena. There have been many reports, historically, about bugs acquiring resistance seemingly overnight. Again, the mechanism for this type of event are completely unknown to us. There are so many things that occur in our physical world that seem bewildering - yet commonplace.
That is the great joy of science, to reach into that unknown realm and search for those natural rhythms that are just beyond our understanding.
Q: I don’t know what to say. I had no idea such a thing was even possible. But it makes the hair on my neck stand up when you talk about the effects the mutation has on the lungs. Is that what happened in 1918?
MA: Well we have to be careful about overreaching but yes something very similar to this event. That bug killed the young and healthy with impunity. Once again, in a cytokine storm the more robust your immune system is - the more devastating the feedback loop.
Q: It is almost like we are, step by step, building up to your vision of the HIV mutation. All these events are so similar to what you postulate.
For the first time MA, I am a little frightened.
MA: And why is that?
Q: I suppose because before this discussion your theory seemed just too far fetched to make any sense. But when you frame the outbreak with all this in the background - it is just a bit too real for me.
I am in the position of having read your writings stretching over nearly a decade and it is impossible to forget how prescient you have been on so many issues. That worries me when your predictions begin to make not only reasonable sense but have a small ring of truth.
MA: Ring of truth?
Q: Well yes, there is something in your tale that seems, to me, believable. I am forced, for the first time, to ask myself “could it really happen?” And viewing your past history of remarkable calls in the field of Virology - I would prefer not to answer that question. It is the knowledge that I would rather avoid that question that frightens me.
MA: I can understand your concern. There is a certain rhythm to life and many times it seems to telegraph the direction that it is moving in.
We are often just passengers on this cosmic train and that knowledge can be a bit unsettling.
Let’s have a drink and take a break for a moment.
Q: She must have seen that I was not quite all there. My mind was going over this new revelation. I had no idea that organisms could change so quickly and in concert of all things. It was the piece of the puzzle that never seemed quite right.
From our first conversation I was aware that MA was awaiting a viral outbreak of a scale that would change our species. So what - I know people who believe aliens visit us from time to time. Everyone to their own.
But this outline of events is lacking the huge leap of faith that I always assumed she had made. I suppose it could be possible...
MA: Here is a fresh Crown on the rocks. I will be right back - I am making tea.
Q: I put another log on the fire and tried to gather my reporter persona. My desire to see this conversation played out in detail now appears to have gone a bridge too far. It is safe and warm to view others as odd or eccentric, all the time smugly maintaining a safe distance from the message. But I feel a bit compromised.
Q: MA, are you saying that there are to be multiple simultaneous mutations worldwide?
MA: Yes.
Q: And I assume this large scale outbreak is what overpowers the health care systems?
MA: There will never be a real opportunity for containment. This is not Hollywood. No hero will develop a magical antidote just in time to save the beautiful woman. No, this event is of such a consequence that, by the time the scale is apparent, the issue will be settled.
Because the virus is airborne the first three days of outbreaks will saturate such a large population that all the wheels will rapidly come off even the best health care systems. The first task will be to understand what is happening and it will, all to rapidly, become apparent that it is a very hot bug and that it is pandemic.
But by the time the extent of what has happened is well known - there will be no recourse.
Child, there is no recourse even now. We cannot kill this creature. We have only kept it at bay for these many years and that era of detente is rapidly ending.
Q: But MA, you make it sound so hopeless. How could you believe such a thing?
MA: There are things that I believe and things that I know. This virus and its coming change are something I know. I know in detail and specificity that defies all common understanding - yet my knowledge remains.
And now you know.
Q: I have one last question before I go, how will these folks know. Are you going to write, or will it be on the news or what?
MA: That is to be easy. All the systems are now in place. The Internet is here, the pandemic blogs are all up and watching and we only wait. It will be out of Egypt, because of the powerful infrastructure watching for H5N1 outbreaks, where most people will hear the first news. When you hear of the sudden outbreak in Egypt, leave immediately. Use only self service gas pumps, do not stop and do not have any human contact from that point on.
If you are alone, or with your family run to a refuge. Wait for it to burn out. Be patient and then patient some more. Let the darkness pass over the earth. It will be quicker than any Hollywood disaster movie could ever portray. But it will pass.
Q: Well that is pretty clear. Egypt huh?
MA: That is where you will first know.
~ placemarker ~
“We use this term to describe an event where the same mutation breaks out in multiple locations in the same time frame.”
I remember a phrase from one of the stories of the Bible...”and in one night was 185 thousand slain”! I think such a thing, as described above, the ancient prophets would call “the judgment of the Lord!”. Such multiple mutations happening all at once in many locations just don’t happen by a chance co-incidence!
Oh I get the thought process...a highly mutagenic virus already spread in diverse populations, consisting of a certain generation of said given virii which will, upon reaching a certain reproductive cycle within the hosts’ cells, hit that same mutagenic change point seemingly randomally yet mutually at the same time, whereupon they become dangerously pathological in many folks all at once, in many locations all at once. In such a scenario
The reason why I’m skeptical is because of the constant random variations of RNA templates that exist from person to person which, while being forced by virii to make new viruses, still impose some influences of their own upon the next generation of virii. One person or one closely related family group will be the next source of a super plague perhaps but I have difficulties with the “multiple” time bomb theory!
If such virii are to become the next super plague, all at once ,in many locations all at once, then something spiritual is at work! God is the judge of people and nations!
Placemarker.
I am a very poor witness because I do not believe in God or spiritual stuff, I am to the core of my being an empiricist. Sartre, Camus and R. M. Persig are the cornerstones of my philosophy.
But yet....
You have tagged exactly what she believes. If you asked her the question she would look at you in that special way that makes you wonder if you really are educated and explain that it is only our poor perceptual skills that keeps us setting up these dichotomous choices.
It is not nature or God, there is no real difference. Evolution is little more than creation in action.
I miss her and the days we spent under the tree by the lake at her cabin in Tahoe.
But the work is mine and it what it is.
“Oh I get the thought process...a highly mutagenic virus already spread in diverse populations, consisting of a certain generation of said given virii which will, upon reaching a certain reproductive cycle within the hosts’ cells, hit that same mutagenic change point seemingly randomally yet mutually at the same time, whereupon they become dangerously pathological in many folks all at once, in many locations all at once.”
Yes that is it. But MA would explain to you, as she did to me, that in our short history as a species such events are not rare at all, but simply part of the rhythm of evolution/creation.
I do understand what she means when she explains that all our recent evolution has been in the realm of perception.
Hard to argue with that fact. But to her each population bottleneck is simply a choosing. I am at a loss to explain where we are headed but MA clearly sees that this coming wave is targeted at perception.
It is just weird. Now on the TV I see these people all preparing to survive after some horrific event (fill in the blank on your favorite disaster) and I just wonder.
I have read all her works, and it impresses the hell out of me. So what do I believe - is she lucky or gifted.
You pay your money and take your choice.
I apologize for ranting a bit but you are the first poster to truly pinpoint her exact prediction and it raises all the old conflicts in my gin soaked brain.
I appreciate your post very much.
Kartographer, have you seen this thread?
James - can you please add me to your list? I always find the interviews interesting.
I saw it, but I have mixed feelings.
MA bookmark
I just don’t know. I sent this thread link to a couple of friends, one doesn’t think that HIV could go airborne since it is a (I wonder if I can remember the word...) a lentovirus? Something like that? Slow acting on the body? I am really uneducated. I personally have no scientific understanding on which to even have a useful opinion.
But meanwhile H5N1 appears to possibly be gathering a head of steam all by its little self.
What I see happening is a multiple break-out of plague, war, famine, and economic collapse which leaves the developed world severely stricken at all levels and all within a very short space. Ironically the folks already living in areas of the world on a subsistance level may do better and have more freedoms for a time then those who are barely surviving in such places as NYC or London. Governments will become brutal and any pretences of civil rights will disappear. Religious freedoms will be curtailed accept for those “religious” movements that support a “conformist” philosophy for conformity and “cooperative team spirit” will be seen as the only way to survive the horrors that have fallen upon the world.
As for “prepper” types, who have stocked up for the coming “black swans”,the only way they’ll get to keep what they have and not have what they have stored up “confiscated” ( in the name of the people) from them is by banding together in defensible regions and/ or secreting themselves in such remote locations that it will not be worth the effort of regional rulers, who would be barely holding things together as it is, to get at such “survivalists”.
The U.S. may very well break up into regional countries unless strong force, even the threats of limited use of tactical nuclear devices, could be brought to bear against such balky populaces.(an 1860’s style civil war couldn’t happen now, a modern President Lincoln equivalent with control of limited nuclear weapons such as neutron bombs could strangle a rebellion quickly).
Given simultaneous multilevel (and geopolitical in scope) black swan events however, even forming basic limited government in many regions may be months in reconstituting. Hence the U.S.A. break up may occur anyway, simply as a means for the survival of newly disorganized and isolated people groups.
(and as the bible says...”and the living will envy the dead”)
H5N1 is right now suicidally getting help from ‘researchers’ who are helping it go airborne. Now if that gets out by accident or accidentally on purpose LOOK OUT!
Done
Actually I don’t think the researchers are helping it go airborne. It’s doing that by itself just fine; the researchers findings would tell people who look at samples of current H5N1 what to look for, though.
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