Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Physics of why the e-Cat's Cold Fusion Claims Collapse
"Starts with A Bang!" Blog ^ | 12/5/2011 | Dr. Ethan Siegel, Dr. Peter Thieberger

Posted on 12/06/2011 6:22:41 AM PST by Johnny B.

This claim is made for two reasons:

Right here, this very site claimed that these results were probably faked, and now we're going to show you the physics of why these claims are definitely untrue.

(Excerpt) Read more at scienceblogs.com ...


TOPICS: Science; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: coldfusion; ecat; fake; lenr; rossi; stringtheory
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-99 next last
To: muawiyah
Still didn’t go to jail.
Yes, he did. Several times. Over the course of 5-10 years.
61 posted on 12/07/2011 2:23:55 PM PST by Johnny B.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Still didn’t go to jail.

Miscarriage of justice.

As I recall, Al Capone, despite involvement in bootlegging, bribery, and prostitution, was only convicted and imprisoned for tax evasion. Some criminals do have an ability to keep themselves out of prison.

62 posted on 12/07/2011 2:54:55 PM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.

The big problem with this “proof” is that they’re saying that because they haven’t figured out how its done, then its impossible.

That is illogical, and fallacial.

Too many researchers have encountered large enough amounts of energy that cannot be answered by non-nuclear chemistry to pull off the dismissal.

They present their opinion well but it fails on exhaustive logic. Proving a negative simply cannot be done. Had they simply said improbable, I would not argue with them.


63 posted on 12/07/2011 4:03:31 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.

That’s truly an impressive list of frauds at your link.

And in between running the PetrolDragon scam and a jewelry business (another scam?), Rossi had enough time on his hands to conduct scientific research and discover a way to violate the laws of physics. He’s truly amazing! /s


64 posted on 12/07/2011 4:05:42 PM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: freebilly

>> “The e-Cat shills will not be happy” <<

.
But the psuedo-science groupies are chortling...


65 posted on 12/07/2011 4:06:20 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.

>> “A 500KW generator could easily provide 65-75KW without having to throttle up.” <<

.
You obviously do not understand how the throttle controls on generators work, nor are you familar with diesel engines.

The solenoid that operates the generator is very sensitive to any current at all, and the generator is brought up to operating speed almost instantaneously.


66 posted on 12/07/2011 4:21:45 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Greysard

>> “The drawback of this rigging is that a regular load wouldn’t work in that outlet.” <<

.
If you’re talking about a normal, two pole split circuit, that is a gross understatement, in as much as the voltage would be double the center split voltage.


67 posted on 12/07/2011 4:28:20 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: exDemMom
Capone went to jail. Dillinger was shot down on the streets of Chicago. William Ayers is still running around loose.

Did you realize that there's one degree of separation between Bill Ayers and Obama. There's one degree of separation between Obama and Jimmy Carter. There's one degree of separation between Jimmy Carter and Andrea Rossi.

That doesn't turn Rossi into a mad bomber, but that's actually pretty close ~ still, it would be far worse if there were one degree of separation between Bill Ayer's father and Joe Bonano, and one degree between Joe and Andrea.

Actually that's all there is too.

The error is in imagining Rossi is a king pin. His old business buddy Bob Gentile has close links with Obama, Carter, Bush ~ the coal industry in general, and every single alternative energy idea or scheme on the planet!

He's obviously the king pin or close to it. Rossi is just an inventor and a wheeler-dealer.

68 posted on 12/07/2011 4:28:54 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.
He was "sentenced" but that was before the AUTOMATIC APPEAL PROCESS. This wasn't a case with a capital crime like that of Amanda Knox. She was held in jail pending arraignment, pending trial, pending appeal ~

One of the articles someone pointed to referred to him as having fled justice to America. Still, these days he goes back and forth with impunity.

We still need some definitive reports on any time he actually spent in jail ~ stories about sentencing in Italy don't mean anything.

BTW, they don't mean anything here either. Blagojevich was sentenced to 14 years. He's out at the moment and will be at home for a good long while.

69 posted on 12/07/2011 4:34:11 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Greysard

>> “ What exactly will happen if the coolant flow is reduced or stopped?” <<

.
The concern you voice is appropriate for a fission reactor, because the fuel is the reactor, essentially, and cannot be removed at will. This is not so for fusion; the fuel would have to be continually replenished for the reactor to continue. Stopping the coolant flow might destroy the reactor, but would not present any other danger.


70 posted on 12/07/2011 4:34:55 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: exDemMom
Two things here ~ custom made jewelry has been a Gypsy specialty for a long time. Jack of all trades is also a Gypsy specialty.

There's every indication that Br'r Rossi is, in fact, such a person. In the 1800s they pretty much had a monopoly on the repair of pots and pans. In some cities they not only lived in the dumps they engaged heavily in recycling of materials.

Most of the folks in the US like Rossi were absorbed by the aircraft industry on the West Coast during WWII ~

71 posted on 12/07/2011 4:38:48 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor

Ping


72 posted on 12/07/2011 4:45:44 PM PST by TheCause ("that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
This is not so for fusion; the fuel would have to be continually replenished for the reactor to continue.

The known design of the reactor doesn't have an automatic shutoff on hydrogen line and certainly has no replenishment mechanism for nickel. You could stop the reaction by terminating flow of hydrogen and then blowing the rest out of the reactor chamber with some inert gas under pressure, but such a device is not in evidence. In other words, if the eCat works with water flowing, there is no hardware that would shut it down if the water flow suddenly stops, and no good reason why the reaction would cease on its own.

I was told that Rossi claims that the reaction ends when nickel melts. However that happens at 2,600 °F, so the copper shell of the reactor would be already liquid by then (at 1,900 °F), and the hydrogen under pressure would be happily blowing at red hot metal and mixing with air, all the way until the mixture explodes.

If you’re talking about a normal, two pole split circuit, that is a gross understatement

I was thinking of an outlet that has both L and N terminals wired to L of the same phase. The voltage between two terminals would be zero, and it would be the line voltage (230V in Italy) between any of them and the ground. (Of course that would be a huge violation of safety rules.)

The scheme that you are talking about is likely to result in 380V because I suspect three phases, 120 degrees apart, are used in Europe. Three phases are also wired to industrial buildings in the USA, but not to homes.

73 posted on 12/07/2011 6:01:12 PM PST by Greysard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
But the psuedo-science groupies are chortling...

And the rational people who are waiting for independent verification of the e-Cat's performance will continue to wait.

Personally I'm tired of the hype and the breathless all cap postings. If Rossi has invented what he says he has then his invention will speak for itself, but until working e-Cat units start showing up in the marketplace I'll remain a sceptic....

74 posted on 12/07/2011 7:14:59 PM PST by freebilly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: freebilly

I don’t think we’ll see a working ecat.

There’s more to this than Rossi can handle. He needs a staff of physicists and electrical engineers. There is definitely something there to be developed, but the energy industry doesn’t want LENR to be successful, and will do all they can to block it.


75 posted on 12/07/2011 9:55:52 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: Greysard

All homes in the US are powered by two poles of one phase, with the “neutral” being the center tap of the phase, which is also grounded.

The receptacles are then 1/2 of one phase (120 volts), and the heavy stuff like dryers and stoves are the full voltage of the phase (240 v). wiring both poles to a standard receptacle like you said would result in lots of incinerated appliances!


76 posted on 12/07/2011 10:04:21 PM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
wiring both poles to a standard receptacle like you said would result in lots of incinerated appliances!

As matter of fact, there is a quick-and-dirty way to get 240V in a room that has no wiring for it. Since wall outlets are usually equally spread between the legs, you can find two outlets that give you 240V between their "hot" terminals. I had to use this method once.

77 posted on 12/07/2011 10:28:56 PM PST by Greysard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
I don’t think we’ll see a working ecat.
Agreed.
There’s more to this than Rossi can handle. He needs a staff of physicists and electrical engineers.
He claims to have sold a dozen or more of the $2 Million MegaWatt E-Cats. Presumably, he can afford to hire whatever talent he needs.

Unless, of course, he's lying about the sales and he doesn't have $24 Million plus sitting in the bank.

but the energy industry doesn’t want LENR to be successful, and will do all they can to block it.
No doubt this will be a popular excuse when Rossi fails to deliver.
78 posted on 12/08/2011 5:13:45 AM PST by Johnny B.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Johnny B.

What I mean by a working E-cat is one that can produce energy on a useful scale at a reasonable price, and cost of operation.

I do not believe that he has such now, nor that he has the necessary understanding of what he does have, to advance it to an acceptable level.

But I believe that the right team could do it.


79 posted on 12/08/2011 11:22:17 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
What I mean by a working E-cat is one that can produce energy on a useful scale at a reasonable price, and cost of operation.
He claims that he's been heating his factory for two years using one of his E-Cats. If he could do that, he should have no trouble turning it into a "production ready" product.

Of course, one has to wonder why his public demonstrations are so much more lame than what he claims to have done.

80 posted on 12/08/2011 11:28:09 AM PST by Johnny B.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-99 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson