New eCat Customer To Be Public

ECat News, Vortex-L ^ | November 29, 2011 | Herb Gillis

[Kevmo]

New eCat Customer To Be Public
admin on November 29, 2011 — 7 Comments

Herb Gillis
November 28th, 2011 at 12:42 PM
Andrea Rossi:
How long do you think it will be before there is a 1MW customer that is willing to talk about their experiences with the product and act as a reference? Having another customer out there who is willing to act as a reference could provide tremendous leverage. This would be far more valuable than any public test. It would silence the skeptics forever.

Andrea Rossi
November 28th, 2011 at 6:48 PM
Dear Herb Gills:
Today we sold in the USA a 1 MW plant which will go to a normal Customer. This installation will be visitable by the qualified public.
We wait to have completed the contractual procedure through the attorneys, then we will give communication. It will be in the North East of the USA, where I have been in these days.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

If Defkalion pulls a miracle and shows us something substantial on Wednesday, AR’s carefully designed plot might start to run beyond his control. Somehow, I expect him to have an answer for that. Maybe this is it. We shall see.

[With thanks to Alan Fletcher on Vortex]

[Kevmo]

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1487

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg57366.html

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles -------------------------------------------------------------- http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144

Unfortunately, if Rossi did the following:

1) hired a bunch of actors to pretend to be the customer reps,

2) created an elaborate year-long special-effects-derived series of demos,

3) bribed, hypnotised or otherwise fooled Focardi, Levi, Kullander, Essen, Bianchini, Stremmenos

4) arranged for Piantelli, Miley and a host of others to try to fool the world into thinking that cold fusion was real,

5) got NASA, SPAWAR, The Defense Threat Reduction Agency and The Defense Intelligence Agency to say nice things about the field,

6) got Bushnell to make a fool of himself,

7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,

8) sold his profitable company to his ex-partners in order to spend that wealth on a multi-million dollar scam; ----- certain that once he got all the above ducks in a row he would pretend to sell the first device ----- and then reel in the true target of his dastardly plan

9) and convinced a bunch of Greek crooks to set up a dummy company called Defkalion ----- to pretend to fight with him over the non-existent eCat, ----- to perpetuate the illusion and spin it off into a competing mirror-scam

[the second (this time genuine) buyer of a 1MW plant that will net him $2 million dollars ----- until they want their money back or sucker a $100 million dollar deal under the table ----- because he has experience in pulling the wool over all these idiotic eyes ----- and knows that they will just take his word for it ----- and not want to test if his 1MW plant can heat a small village without truckloads of coal or oil or a big fat electric cable coming into the container from beneath the floor (no you can’t lift the carpet!) ]

10) and that, in order to pull this off, Rossi had to risk discovery by interviewing all the people he subsequently fooled so that he could only invite the gullible Professors and not the brilliant anonymous posters on the Internet who surely would have found him out

then, yes, all bets are off and I’m with the guys who think that Rossi is an idiot and they are all geniuses.

[Kevmo]

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1487

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg57366.html

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

---

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144

[Mycroft Holmes]

I am awaiting this with great interest.

[Kevmo]

Good to know.

Since you are among the few who have exhibited some inductive reasoning skills, what is your take on this:

The Pons-Fleischmann excess heat effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times.

https://springerlink3.metapress.com/content/8k5n17605m135n22/resource-secured/?target=fulltext.pdf&sid=xwvgza45j4sqpe3wceul4dv2&sh=www.springerlink.com

Jing-tang He
• Nuclear fusion inside condense matters
• Frontiers of Physics in China
Volume 2, Number 1, 96-102, DOI: 10.1007/s11467-007-0005-8
This article describes in detail the nuclear fusion inside condense matters—the Fleischmann-Pons effect, the reproducibility of cold fusions, self-consistency of cold fusions and the possible applications

http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)

---

Scientific American

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-scientists-sin

1. Jed Rothwell
11:52 AM 6/20/10
Shermer says that Goodstein concluded that cold fusion was most likely a case of scientists who “convince themselves that they are in the possession of knowledge that does not in fact exist.”

Cold fusion has been replicated in over 180 major laboratories, by roughly 1,500 professional scientists. These replications have been published in roughly 800 papers in mainstream, peer reviewed journals such as J. Electroanal. Chem. and Japanese J. of Applied Physcis. J. He of the Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences estimates that the effect has been observed in roughly 14,000 experimental runs (Front. Phys. China (2007) 1: 96 102).

Many of the results were at low signal to noise ratio, but others were high, such as heat from 10 to 100 W, and tritium at 50 times background (Los Alamos, Texas A&M) up to several million times (BARC).

Most of the researchers who have reported positive results are senior, distinguished experts, such as the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, government of India, and the experts at Los Alamos in charge of the Tritium Systems Test Assembly and the Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor at Princton. Only senior researchers can get funding because of academic politics.

When a result has been widely replicated at high signal to noise ratios and reported in the literature, that result is real, by definition. There is no other standard of reality in science. If it were possible for hundreds of scientists in hundreds of laboratories to be wrong, the experimental method would not work, and no result would be meaningful, and science itself would not work. If Shermer and Goodstein would substitute some other standard of truth, and ignore replication and peer-review, they are engaged in some form of faith-based religion or a popularity contest, not science.

[bigbob]

Cool, let the market decide...(as opposed to the Dr. Sciences of FR)...

[Mycroft Holmes]

I think it’s pretty clear that there is something going on with the Pons-Fleischmann experiments. The beauty part of that work is that while it is odd and often inconsistent it is replicable. Prepared electrodes that work in the hands of one researcher also work in the hands of another. There is still a “secret sauce” but everybody is trying to figure out what it actually is and is publishing what they observe or compute in the clearest fashion possible. Compare and contrast.

[Kevmo]

The main problem all along has been replicability and consistency. Rossi came up with a ‘catalyst’ that splits an H2 molecule into separate atoms and makes it more susceptible to the LENR reactions. He didn’t invent LENR, he just enhanced it. It’s fascinating to see how many critics there are who insert the claim that Rossi invented a free energy/perpetual motion device, and then argue against it in a classic fallacy of straw argumentation.

[Liberty1970]

This is a step in the right direction. There have been many disappointments of late (despite all the tantalizing snippets coming out from Rossi and his erstwhile competitors), so I hope this pans out the way we observers would like with some public data and independent confirmation.

[Secret Agent Man]

If he cna do a test of his bigger machines without having generators hooked up to the e-cat that are larger than the output of the e-cat, for 5-1/2 hours as planned, or any other power/fuel sources, THAT would be very convincing.

If the e-cat is producing over-unity energy, that excess power could be used to keep the e-cat stable, so no outside generators should be needed once the initial startup/warmup is over.

[Johnny B.]

I'm looking forward to a real, independent organization to step forward and announce that they have an E-Cat and that it really does produces a useful amount of excess heat.

I'm expecting this new customer to be a partner of Rossi's, and in on the scam. A good example would be NAI Norwood Group. If they happen to be the customer, be very dubious. Karl Norwood is up to his neck in Rossi's deals (for example, he and Rossi have been sharing the same office and business phone number for at least the last couple of years).

It would be nice if Rossi just announced the customer, instead of trying to generate publicity by announcing that he is going to announce his announcement.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

“This would be far more valuable than any public test. It would silence the skeptics forever.”

As no corporation has ever purchased software that does not work, made an acquisition that went sour, hired a CEO who made made disastrous decisions, etc.

I’ll take a public test under well controlled conditions, thank you.

[Darksheare]

"Unfortunately, if Rossi did the following:"

Its been done before, John Ernst Worrell Keely.

[Lx]

You skeptic you. I believe this announcement, not.

Is Sterling Allen doing the press release?

[PapaBear3625]

We all await a (large, well known, otherwise unconnected to Rossi) public customer willing to testify that he has been running an e-Cat at his site and he verifies that it produces large net excess energy.

[Lx]

He says this, "Since you are among the few who have exhibited some inductive reasoning skills, what is your take on this:".

Simply because he thinks you agree with him. Hell, I'd agree with him if I though it worked. I would save around $500 a month (12 month average). The E-cat would pay for itself in less than two years.

How long has Newman been promising his motor?

Just go here

And tell me you don't hear Newman's words repeated by Rossi and his supporters.

[Mycroft Holmes]

I’ll try not to let my head swell. I’ve been paid money more than once to evaluate technology for investors. I gave this the same effort I would give a good friend with more money than sense and a pile of paper from an inventor. That is, about 8 hours of serious reading, a day to mull things over, and then an oral recommendation about how to proceed.

I only looked at the thermal data as it is the interesting part from a naive investor’s point of view. I found that all of the experiments were done in such a fashion so as to confuse the results. The interesting data is so simple and well defined that one has to conclude that such massive, repetitive failure is by design, not chance.

My recommendation to the mythical investor is to pass. If you insist on proceeding, get a scientifically trained, practicing magician to tell you how it is done. Someone on the order of Penn Gillette or Randi. And good luck with all that.

[Lx]

I only looked at the thermal data as it is the interesting part from a naive investor’s point of view. I found that all of the experiments were done in such a fashion so as to confuse the results. The interesting data is so simple and well defined that one has to conclude that such massive, repetitive failure is by design, not chance.

Hmm, why would someone spike the results purposely? We've got it on record that Rossi misled Defkalion who happens to have their own thingamajig:

Rossi says he did it to lead them down the wrong path, OK, very sleazy business deal but hey? Why are all his tests designed to look professional but are far from it? Easy, to bring in the suckers and with the rah rah Rossi crowd like Kevmo, that's turns out out to be remarkably easy.

Rossi does NOT have a legitimate reason to not allows third party tests with him or a rep around to ensure that they don't get Rossi's secret catalyst. The problem with that though, from basic chemistry, a catalyst is not used up in a reaction. What is my point? Well, Rossi handed out two samples, the before and after samples. If this is real (it's not) then all they have to do is assay the after samples and figure out the secret sauce, it's that easy. So, that can't be his real reason, he's already given it away and I expect him to have a B.A's knowledge of chemistry to know he handed out the catalyst so what is the real reason?

Why, it's simple, it doesn't work. Rossi seems somewhat sincere so it's possible he thinks he's very close and with some more money he can make it work (I'm giving Rossi credit he has not earned). But, guess what? The Black Light Power (BLP) folks have been promising this for decades and yet, nothing. Nothing after millions have been sunk into it. That doesn't mean Mills is going down the wrong path, maybe he's only seeing what he wants to see. What if, like Rossi, the nickel with secret sauce does give out excess energy but it decays rapidly. So rapidly, that when it's all added up, it doesn't equal or exceed the energy needed to created the special nickel, the energy to pre-heat the water and the energy to keep the ancillary functions running.

Pretty simple really. For Kevmo:

You were a sucker...

[Darksheare]

In post 12 I ,linked ot one of the *cough* more reliable tales of John Ernst Worrell Keely who ran a scam from roughly 1881 to 1898 when he died.
The scam involved “Aetheric Vapor” [which science believed to exist at the time] and he ‘intended’ to produce a ‘marketable engine’.
He ran his scam until his death without ever producing anything beyond a showman’s performance in his ‘lab’.
He never let anyone examine his devices.

Sadly, despite having been proven a scam artist, Keely is listed on some sites STILL as being a genius.
Other sites claim some conspiracy to keep his devices from working.
[Look him up, you’ll see lots of entertainment value.]

[muawiyah]

NAI Norwood has ONE GUY ~ Carl Norwood ~ involved with GENTILE and his crowd from Department of Energy.

I think that group is far more significant than you've heretofor imagined. In their manifestation as LTI they have a large multimillion dollar a year service contract with DOE and work all over North America on a wide variety of projects.

In their manifestation as Ampenergo they claim they have a deal with Rossi regarding North American sales of E-Cat.

The customer is probably the crowd in Sweden ~ and the reason is NO ONE has said Ampenergo actually had a hand in selling the first E-Cat (which would be consistent with their claim to a charter of some sort for that purpose).

[muawiyah]

Mycroft Holmes ~ we had a bad mailing years ago ~ the customer (Sears) claimed none of their test pieces that been seeded through the 40 million+ mailing had ended up in the hands of the folks they hire to receive such pieces and keep track of things at delivery end.

The mailing agency was RRDonnelly (there are several different companies with that name BTW, but USPS knows who they are, so no danger). They had perfect records that showed every overtime hour in the right place, the attendance of all the hundreds of employees involved, even the orders for paper, print, envelopes ~ all the things that go into a mailing.

You'd think it'd be hard to misplace a large mailing of that size.

This case was unusual and required the attention of a number of people ~ millions of dollars of mail had apparently come into the USPS custody somewhere in Chicago and just disappeared!

No one even had a point of origin "sample piece" ~ something always collected with each bulk rate mailing.

I was sitting there looking at piles of wage hour documents and realized they were all done in the same hand with the same pen ~ it occurred to me NO ONE HAD CREATED THE MAIL, but they had paid USPS. They were stealing the greater part of the funds provided by Sears to the mailing agent to buy paper, et al, and pay the workers. (agent pays vendor, vendor doesn't deliver goods, agent signs off, splits proceeds later).

So, I took that to the boss. In the end we gave the customer a refund on part of the mailing (after all if we never got the mail then they didn't owe the postage).

The mailing agent fired all the people in the deal ~ once they determined who it was at the newsprint vendor who'd colluded with their guys.

The point here is that if you have a stack of data sheets and you suspect forgery, or misrepresentation, STARE at them. What are the uniform characteristics. Or, are there too many hands on the data (like 50 different ways of writing when you know there were only 3 or 4 people involved). Are the columns too straight or too crooked. How often do they need to cross out stuff, or do they never need to cross out stuff.

I had boxes of stuff to look at on that Sears mailing ~ kind of thing to make you go blind ~ but once I got a grasp of the rhythm of the creation it was very obvious what had happened ~ as improbable as it was.

You may be on to something by noting what may be an unanticipated repetitiveness. That ALWAYS indicates "long after the fact preparation" ~ but it's when you get beyond 8 hours that you can get a good link and notice the aggregate structure.

If we have forged data that can mean several things ~ (1) they don't want to let you know, (2) they did no measurements at all, (3) the data was recorded somewhere else but this is just a "show copy"(since you aren't a real customer that's a possibility if they are totally paranoic about keeping stuff secret), or (4) nothing at all ~

I wouldn't dismiss your finding out of hand ~ it's worth pursuing ~ and the "customer" might want to do that thoroughly.