Replies

Not sure why you pinged me. Is this all you do every single day of your life?

Surely you know that the many early Christian fathers believed & taught the doctrine of deification, right? So, the Mormons teach what early Christians taught for centuries, & even some contemporaries such as C.S. Lewis. What’s your point? That you’re more scholarly than those theologians?

I don’t know, but it seems you need to get out more.

When you comment upon the 52,000 Lds missionaries out 6 days a week, 60-70 hrs., for 2 straight years, be sure to let me know.

...it seems you need to get out more.

(It seems those Lds mishies need to stay in more...especially during those cold winter nights & days)

Surely you know that the many early Christian fathers believed & taught the doctrine of deification, right? So, the Mormons teach what early Christians taught for centuries, & even some contemporaries such as C.S. Lewis. What’s your point? That you’re more scholarly than those theologians?

How long has reading an author carefully been an issue to you?

#1: C.S. Lewis clearly says we will remain creatures ("He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command."--not creators of our own world or our own universe).

Tell us. How long have you suffered from this difficulty of being able to distinguish between anthropology (study of the creature) and theology (study of the Creator)?

#2: I believe you’re referencing Lewis’ book Mere Christianity. If that is so, then why doncha give us all rave reviews of his chapter 24 of that book & the "Three-Personal God" he writes about there? What? You agree with that, too? Or are you into cherry-picking?

#3: Lewis didn’t arrive @ any new out-of-thin-air reference about "gods"...he clearly said he was citing the Bible and it's obvious He was only referencing Ps. 82 & John 10 (John 10 cites Ps. 82). The "god"-judges in Ps. 82 are "unjust" who in v. 7 are to receive God’s wrath--not the sort of divines I'd care to be under. You? Or is you “god” constantly subject to the wrath of other gods? Even the Lds “apostle” Talmage said that Psalm 82 was in reference to unjust men, not literal gods.

#4: The context of Lewis’ “gods” statement is that we would be re-created into a ”dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine.” A “creature” is still a creature, Confab. But, hey, you go on and tell the world all about “creature-gods” that the Book of Mormon, supposedly the “fullness of the everlasting gospel” (as the D&C says) – absolutely & utterly fails to mention.

Lewis elaborated what he meant, in The Weight of Glory: "There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations--these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit--immortal horrors or everlasting splendours...Next to the Blessed Sacrament itself, your neighbor is the holiest object presented to your senses. If he is your Christian neighbour, he is holy in almost the same way, for in him also Christ...the glorifier and the glorified, Glory Himself, is truly hidden."

So, (a), immortality and the dazzling nature of reflecting God's image perfectly (as re-created beings in Christ) still does not equate to supernatural inherent godhood.
(b) that "image" we shine forth is as Lewis said "the glorifier and the glorified, Glory Himself" tucked away in us. Lewis makes this clear in Mere Christianity in chapter 29: "And now we begin to see what it is that the New Testament is always talking about. It talks about Christians `being born again'; it talks about them 'putting on Christ'; about Christ 'being formed in us'; about our coming to 'have the mind of Christ'."

Simply put: Jesus lives through His body. At one time it was simply a 33-year-old body of flesh. Now that body has multiplied so that it encompasses millions of people. We the church are temples of Christ (as Lewis said citing Scripture He is "formed in us"), temples of the Holy Spirit. Does this very reflection of divinity in us mean we are divine? Read Lewis more carefully in chapter 29 (& beginning of chapter 30). I quote from Lewis:

"It is a living Man, still as much a man as you, and still as much God as He was when He created the world, really coming and interfering with your very self; killing the old natural self in you and replacing it with the kind of self He has. At first, only for moments. Then for longer periods. Finally, if all goes well, turning you permanently into a different sort of thing; into a new little Christ, a being which, in its own small way, has the same kind of life as God; which shares in His power, joy, knowledge and eternity. And soon we make two other discoveries. I have been talking as if it were we who did everything. In reality, of course, it is God who does everything. We, at most, allow it to be done to us. In a sense you might even say it is God who does the pretending. The Three-Personal God, so to speak, sees before Him in fact a self-centred, greedy, grumbling, rebellious human animal. But He says `Let us pretend that this is not a mere creature, but our Son. It is like Christ in so far as it is a Man, for He became Man. Let us pretend that it is also like Him in Spirit. Let us treat it as if it were what in fact it is not. Let us pretend in order to make the pretence into a reality.' God looks at you as if you were a little Christ: Christ stands beside you to turn you into one. I daresay this idea of a divine make-believe sounds rather strange at first...In the previous chapter we were considering the Christian idea of 'putting on Christ,' or first 'dressing up' as a son of God in order that you may finally become a real son."

So, yes, the very life of God flows in us and through us; as the temple of God, our body shares space with Him. But we are not divine by nature. Secondly, to sum up Lewis, God treats us (Lewis uses the word "make-believe") as if we were not simply the adopted sons Paul talks about in Romans & elsewhere; we become transformed beings who cannot receive any credit for any of this transformation. That is exactly opposite the Book of Mormon, which says that grace kicks in "only after all you can do."

Is this all you do every single day of your life?

Personage #1: No, Ma'am - just for a YEAR or so...

I don’t know, but it seems you need to get out more.

Personage #2: Hecky frakkin' DANG!!

We DO it for 6 days a week! What flippin' MORE do you want?"