Thank you, Ma'am, for your kind question; but these FI's post more MORMON stuff than WE hand out!
Colofornian: This is soooo perfect. You are in complete agreement with the likes of Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchens and liberal “journalists” everywhere.
If I wanted to - which I don’t - I could dig up a lot of negative out-of-context stuff about Catholicism. But why? I have no axe to grind against Catholics.
I am perplexed as to why you continue to post over and over and over and over the same old anti Mormon stuff. Don’t you have anything better to do?
Now that I think of it, there is an industry in place whose only purpose is to attempt to tear down and discredit The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Big business. Raking it in hand over fist.
And I am mystified why after posting the words of lds leaders that you continue to deny the blatant anti-Christian message that is mormonISM.
Don’t you have anything better to do than bash Christians?
lds church is big business.....how do you not understand that?
What's out of context? V. 18 of what I cited has a reference by Smith re: which of all the sects was right? Are you claiming that Protestants, Catholics or Orthodox don't apply to "the sects?" The verse after what I cited -- v. 20 -- shows Smith even being more more specific about one denomination in Protestantism: I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
Wanna tell us, Saundra, what "isn't true" about Presbyterianism? Or is it "OK" for Mormon bashers of Christianity to give vague, generic bashings minus specifics?
If I wanted to - which I don’t - I could dig up a lot of negative out-of-context stuff about Catholicism. But why? I have no axe to grind against Catholics.
Saundra, Scoutmaster didn't have dig deep into "obscureland" to find some hidden buried quote. He went to Lds.org, clicked on "menu," clicked on "scriptures," clicked on "Pearl of Great Price" -- one of the Mormon "scriptures" -- and then clicked on "Joseph Smith - History" -- also part of Mormon "scriptures."
Now that I think of it, there is an industry in place whose only purpose is to attempt to tear down and discredit The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Big business. Raking it in hand over fist.
(There's $ in this? Hmmm...Why is it that this ministry has an "outflow" of expenses but zero coming in for me personally then? Could it be you are now guilty of judging my inner motives and falsely superimposing financial gain? Did you know that false accusations is a sin? Did you know that one of the names of the evil one is "accuser of the brethren?" Do you not believe that I am your brother from the pre-existence? And here you attribute false motives to me and judge my inward motivation? May I respectfully request an apology?)
I am perplexed as to why you continue to post over and over and over and over the same old anti Mormon stuff.
Because Lds who have come into Christ on this site -- posters like Szonian and Sentinel -- are worth it. Their souls -- and yours -- are loved by our Lord, Jesus. If your righteousness was enough, then we wouldn't have needed the perfect life of Jesus to have his righteousness take our place.
I was reading a Relief Society Personal Study Guide 4 published for Lds women in 1992 yesterday. I came across this sentence which shows how many Mormon women (& men) are still trying to "justify" themselves in the eyes of God/Jesus Christ:
In our efforts to BECOME JUSTIFIED and sanctified, we must not be discovered by our weaknesses. We must not give up or believe that THE GOAL is beyond our reach. As we continue to STRIVE, through faith in Christ and continued righteousness..." (p. 41)
* Yes, this life's sanctification is a process.
* Yes, we strive, seek to overcome, persevere, etc.
* And yes, we do that "through faith in the [true] Christ..."
* But, no Saundra, your leaders have led you astray if you think being "justified" is always the far-off future.
* Worse yet, your leaders have led you astray if you think that "striving" and "continued righteousness" on your part as anything to do with you becoming "justified."
The apostle Paul said: 9 Since we have NOW been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:9-11)
We have already been justified in Christ's blood, Saundra. We have already been reconciled to God!
You Mormons want to keep the world at bay from being reconciled to Heavenly Father unless we have some legalistic temple recommend! Because even though you say we can make it to heaven, you exclude us from that reconciliation Paul was talking about for legalistic reasons!
The blood of Christ justifies us! The blood of Christ acquits us -- even though we are guilty! The blood of Christ reconciles us to the Father! Stop the exclusiveness of our eternal relationship with Heavenly Father!
1. Was Jesus married and a polygamist?
2. Was Polygamy one of the reasons Jesus was hounded by the Jewish authorities and crucified?
3. Was Jesus sired by a god who was once a man and earned the attributes of godhood to be appointed as the god over Earth?
4. Did Jesus have to earn the attributes of godhood and be added to the godhead over Earth and humankind?
5. Has Jesus always been God, or did he have to become god?
6. Is Joseph Smith going to be standing with the mormonism jesus to vouch for your soul upon your death, to evaluate that you did all that you could do to be righteous in life and thus deserving of Salvation?
7. Is justification for you found in the work Jesus did at the cross or in the Garden of Gethsemane?
You see, Sandy, I can quote to you from your own religion's approved documents what amounts to a different jesus than the Jesus of the Bible. But you will spew and spittle that LDS inc is Christianity restored, yet this supposed restoration is constructed upon a different jesus than the Bible introduces, so LDS inc is heretical to Christianity and thus the use of Jesus in your blasphemous religion (blasphemous to Christianity) is offensive and you are an offense (to Christians) to continue to defend this demonic lie.
You little gaggle of LDS inc apologists are not going to succeed in preparing conservatives to accept Milt Rominy (it rhymes with hominy, the huskless corn product) by squelching opposition to MormonISM.
Colofornian hit the nail on the head SD - a double standard common to mormons. I dare say that the citation from POGP - JS history IS in context and there are VOLUMES of teachings from mormonism related to the 'great apostasy' to support the conclusions as well.
Seems that only misleading statements come from mormons themselves.
BTW, you don't need to "dig up" anti-catholic statements - your prophets and apostles have made them by the boatload.
I am perplexed as to why you continue to post over and over and over and over the same old anti Mormon stuff. Don’t you have anything better to do?
Multiply that by 60,000 daily running around telling us that the mormon church is the only 'true' church. So tell us SD - if Christianity is apostate - why do mormons want to be associated with it after most of its history was spent repudiating it?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Big business. Raking it in hand over fist.
Yes indeed LDS Inc. is BIG BUSNIESS raking in that 10% from all those seeking to become gods and goddesses.
Thank you, Ma'am, for your kind question; but these FI's post more MORMON stuff than WE hand out!
Are you SURE that you're a MORMON?
You will never see me refer to LDS garments as "magic underwear." The garments don't have a spiritual meaning to me, and I have issues embroidered symbols on them, but they have meaning to your faith. Many other faiths have articles of sacred clothing.
I will not attempt to convert you and I respect your right to worship as you choose.
I try my best to limit my posts to concerns with the conflict between LDS "faithful history"/"faith-promoting" history and objective history. I try to avoid theology, because theology is a matter of faith; issues such as whether polygamy stopped within the LDS Church with the 1890 Manifeso are a matter of fact. One, I try to stay away from. The other, I'm likely to post about, just as I would if someone were to say that the Catholic Church didn't shuffle pedophile priests or that Scientology doesn't believe in Xenu. This post ventures into theology, which makes me somewhat uncomfortable. I'm earnest, I come in peace, and I don't want to argue.
What I posted I do not consider to be "old anti-Mormon stuff." I posted part of Joseph Smith, Jr.'s First Vision, from the official scriptures of the LDS Church, as posted on its website, I didn't post the entire First Vision, but I'm happy to post it and I don't believe it's taken out of context.
By 'First Vision,' I'm referring to the 1838 version, first published in Times and Season, March 15, 1842, vol. 3, no. 10, pp. 727-728, 748-749, 753, and adopted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as the Official Version. I realize that some may call me 'anti-Mormon' by suggesting that there is more than one version. However, there is. On its official website, the LDS Church has an article called Joseph Smith's Recitals of the First Vision, which is the LDS church's official reconciliation of differences in Smith's four accounts. The article does not address the five or more other versions of the First Vision written by others, but they are addressed in scholarly articles that appear in publications such a BYU Studies, or Dialogue: A journal of Mormon Thought.
So, all I posted was the First Vision. My understanding - and please correct me if I am wrong - is that this First Vision is a cornerstone of the LDS faith. The late LDS Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley said:
"Our entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the validity of this glorious First Vision. ... Nothing on which we base our doctrine, nothing we teach, nothing we live by is of greater importance than this initial declaration. I submit that if Joseph Smith talked with God the Father and His Beloved Son, then all else of which he spoke is true. This is the hinge on which turns the gate that leads to the path of salvation and eternal life."
This appeared in the LDS Church's Ensign Magazine Nov. 1998 edition, pp.70-71.
In the April 2007 PBS documentary, The Mormons, Prophet Hinckley said of the First Vision:
it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true. And that's exactly where we stand, with a conviction in our hearts that it is true: that Joseph went into the Grove; that he saw the Father and the Son; that he talked with them; that Moroni came; that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates; that the priesthood was restored by those who held it anciently. That's our claim. That's where we stand, and that's where we fall, if we fall. But we don't. We just stand secure in that faith."
Speaking before the 2002 LDS General Conference, Prophet Hinckley said in his speech, The Marvelous Foundations of Our Faith, that Joseph Smith, Jr.'s First Vision stood above the baptism of Jesus Christ, or the Transfiguration of Christ:
"In all of recorded religious history there is nothing to compare with it. The New Testament recounts the baptism of Jesus when the voice of God was heard and the Holy Ghost descended in the form of a dove. At the Mount of Transfiguration, Peter, James, and John saw the Lord transfigured before them. They heard the voice of the Father, but they did not see Him."
So, my assumption is that the First Vision - including the Great Apostasy - is a core part of the current teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. From a screen shot just taken at the Church's official website. It appears that is the case:
It even reads as if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is teaching that nobody could receive the Holy Ghost or know God or Jesus Christ until the LDS church was restored:
I may be totally off base, but that sounds as if the LDS Church isn't just saying "we're Christians," it sounds as if they are saying "nobody else has knowledge of God or Jesus Christ or has the Holy Ghost, so we're the only Christians." Am I missing something?
So I ask these questions seriously:
I tried to word these questions in a polite way. Regardless of your answers, you'll receive no argument nor snarky response from me.
Did you not swear off FR..and state you would never post again???
I think you gave an OPUS....
Seems the apple doesn't fall far from the tree with ya all.
You don't have to look very hard.....But I know you are totally deceived..so you can't see it.
LDS, Inc. is the biggest industry in the religious area. Ranches, radio stations, malls, hotels, packing plants, motels, banks, etc...etc....
Tell us...Sandy...how much money and assets does LDS, Inc. have? How much do they give away?
How much do they take in every year?
And you want to talk about "RAKING IT IN HAND OVER FIST"???????? Now THAT was funny!!!!
Can you provide documentation of the "raking it in big" and "Big business" and "hand over fist".
The only group I see raking it in big, and making bucks hand over fist is the Mormon Corporation, that owns luxury hotels in Hawaii and luxury shopping malls, etc.
In contrast, some small non-profits who reveal the truth the mormon PR machine and their PR agencies don't want anyone to know is peanuts.
Do you have some real evidence or facts to back up your assertion? ampu