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9-9-9 need help
info requested ^ | today | me

Posted on 10/19/2011 7:13:01 PM PDT by OL Hickory

Sorry the vanity, but I need help understanding the 999 plan. Since every thing I read tells me a national sales tax is really a VAT tax..can the plan be changed to a national sales tax on corporations only? Then add into law it can only be increased with a 2/3 majority. I am in no way an economist but I think 27% total tax is still way lower than what business is paying now...And in theory this would be something even the left would have to get behind..They asked for the rich to pay their share and this (in theory) takes the extra tax off the tax payers and shifts it to the corporations..LIKE GE..help me here please I am still undecided at this point...thanks!

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TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education; Government; History
KEYWORDS: cain; flat; herman; hermancain; ibtz; tax
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To: OL Hickory
There is a whole bunch of miss-information about the 9-9-9 plan and I figure a lot of it is intentional to confuse people. I suggest visiting the 3 following calculator sites and trying your own numbers to see how it would affect you. I personally ran my numbers and I am very middle class salary wise and I come out $8300/year better off on federal taxes than I am now. And that is, if I buy 100% new products instead of used.

http://www.nerds4cain.com/Blog/archives/723

http://www.999calculator.net/

http://www.nerds4cain.com/Blog/archives/917

21 posted on 10/19/2011 7:58:48 PM PDT by lwoodham (There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.)
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To: OL Hickory
I love Herman, however his 999plan looks like a ticket to Hooverville.

Just sayin, ya know, history repeats, an what not.

22 posted on 10/19/2011 8:02:00 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (It is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; ~Vattel's Law of Nations)
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To: upchuck

What will GE pay? What will Sony pay? What will GM pay, or Ford, or Toyota? What will Food Lion pay? What will Google pay, or Amazon, Apple, Microsoft and IBM? TransAmerica, Citi, BoA? Before and after?

It’s nice to say “35%” or “9%” but what’s the actuality with the corporations that are the largest in their industry groups?


23 posted on 10/19/2011 8:02:15 PM PDT by bvw
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To: rawcatslyentist
This 999plan looks like a ticket to Hooverville

Why waste time posting BS. Either add or subtract but don't BS. In other words back up your mocking with actual pedal to the metal analysis or case study.

24 posted on 10/19/2011 8:05:05 PM PDT by bvw
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To: OL Hickory

It’s not the sales tax that is the VAT. It is the corporate tax that is essentially a VAT. As opposed to the current corporate tax that is based on profits, the 9-9-9 plan taxes “gross income less all purchases from other US located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.” That’s a straightforward value-added tax: a tax on business receipts less inputs.


25 posted on 10/19/2011 8:10:15 PM PDT by NC28203
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To: Logical me
One question among many I have is if the corporate tax is reduced or done away, will employees get a pay raise?

Currently, you're paying a 15% payroll tax. That will go away. That's a 15% raise to you right there.

Now, sure, other aspects of the plan may eat into that gain, so you have to use one of the calculators to see how this will really work out for you. But some folks only count up the taxes that would be in place -- 9% sales, 9% income, 9% corporate. They say, "Brutal! I'll die!" It is important for people to know about the taxes that go away: Capital gains, payroll tax, progressive personal rate, high corporate rate, etc.

There are pluses and minuses, and some folks just take a quick glance at one minor bad thing and then throw up their hands and ask "What are you doing to me???"

I think the plan is brilliant.

26 posted on 10/19/2011 8:12:41 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (I won't vote for Romney. I won't vote for Perry.)
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To: OL Hickory

In the long term prices should come down as competition sets in and/or wages may increase a little. In the short term you’ll have 9% less money to spend and the deficit will increase. Expect rioting by the poor.


27 posted on 10/19/2011 8:12:54 PM PDT by 83Vet4Life
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To: boop

>>>Yes, but as far as I understand Cain’s plan, corporations will pay 9% instead of 35% so necessarily prices will come down

As opposed to the current corporate tax that is based on profits, the 9-9-9 plan taxes business receipts less inputs.

From the Laffer article in the WSJ:

“Thus, Mr. Cain’s 9-9-9 tax base for his business tax is $9.5 trillion, for his income tax $7.7 trillion, and for his sales tax $8.3 trillion. And there you have it! Three federal taxes at 9% that would raise roughly $2.3 trillion and replace the current income tax, corporate tax, payroll tax (employer and employee), capital gains tax and estate tax.”

It would appear that about 38% of the revenue from the 9-9-9 plan would be derived from the corporate tax. Looking at the current Monthly Treasury reports, corporate income tax accounts for about 8% of revenues under the current plan. Assigining half the payroll tax receipts brings the corporate share to 26% of revenue. I’m not sure how they will be able to roll back prices.


28 posted on 10/19/2011 8:13:38 PM PDT by NC28203
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To: upchuck

>>>Nothing changes for corporations except the rate. They now pay around 35% in taxes. Under Herman’s plan, they will pay 9%.

That is not true. As opposed to the current corporate tax that is based on profits, the 9-9-9 plan taxes business receipts less inputs. Labor is not a deductible expense under 9-9-9.


29 posted on 10/19/2011 8:18:11 PM PDT by NC28203
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To: OL Hickory
I am in no way an economist but I think 27% total tax...

The tax is not 27% total. It is 18% since money is either income or business revenue, never both. The whole point of the system is that money is never taxed as both. So the total tax is always 9% + 9%.

If you look back at Federal Revenue since the inception of the income tax, it has always been between 18% and 20%. The Cain plan would net 18%.

30 posted on 10/19/2011 9:17:17 PM PDT by CMAC51
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To: OL Hickory

Forget 999 it’s DOA.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer is the real answer.


31 posted on 10/19/2011 9:55:16 PM PDT by faucetman (Just the facts ma'am, just the facts)
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To: NC28203

Would you have a link for that info? Thanks.


32 posted on 10/20/2011 3:35:01 AM PDT by upchuck (Rerun: Think you know hardship? Wait till the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.)
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To: OL Hickory

So corporations like GE pay something..NO business pay any taxes.


33 posted on 10/20/2011 3:47:56 AM PDT by Safetgiver (I'd rather die under a free American sky than live under a Socialist regime.)
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To: upchuck

>>>would you have a link for that info?

http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/280528/several-new-problems-9-9-9-josh-barro


34 posted on 10/20/2011 6:01:57 AM PDT by NC28203
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To: NC28203

Thank you.


35 posted on 10/20/2011 6:49:54 PM PDT by upchuck (Rerun: Think you know hardship? Wait till the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.)
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To: boop

price of wheat goesup, the price of bread goes up.

price of wheat goes down, the price of bread stays up

this is a very old saying

2 things

Herman is nutz if the thinks CONgress will give up the power they hold ie- the power to buy and sell favors thru tax law.

Herman assumes that prices will go down if taxes go down.
He hopes big.

If I had to chose a candidate today it woud be

None of the above.....

good luck to HErman and all,, but he is just too much a lightweight to be a player.


36 posted on 10/20/2011 10:17:39 PM PDT by ASOC (What are you doing now that Mexico has become OUR Chechnya?)
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To: justsaynomore

Price of wheat goes up, the price of bread goes up.

price of wheat goes down, the price of bread stays up

this is a very old saying

2 things

Herman is nutz if the thinks CONgress will give up the power they hold ie- the power to buy and sell favors thru tax law.

Herman assumes that prices will go down if taxes go down.
He hopes big.

If I had to chose a candidate today it woud be

None of the above.....

good luck to Herman and all, but he is just too much a lightweight to be a player.


37 posted on 10/20/2011 10:20:05 PM PDT by ASOC (What are you doing now that Mexico has become OUR Chechnya?)
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To: ASOC

Guess you don’t remember what the economy was like before/after Reaganomics then.

The price of wheat went down, so did the price of bread.

It’s called supply side economics and we have a huge example in our lifetime, that WORKED.


38 posted on 10/20/2011 10:23:55 PM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: justsaynomore
My bad on the analogy Congress will not give up their power and all (of any) cuts will not be reflected in prices. We will have to agree to disagree.
39 posted on 10/20/2011 10:37:10 PM PDT by ASOC (What are you doing now that Mexico has become OUR Chechnya?)
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To: ASOC

What you say is true, for a while. As with the price of oil. The price of crude goes up, or something goes bump in the night in the Middle East, and gas stations immediately raise prices. The price of oil goes down, the gas station prices DO eventually come down. Why? Competition. Same thing would happen with corporate taxes going to 9%. Prices would stay the same for a while. And then fall. That’s business.


40 posted on 10/20/2011 11:36:56 PM PDT by boop ("Let's just say they'll be satisfied with LESS"... Ming the Merciless)
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