Posted on 06/26/2011 5:16:49 PM PDT by Kevmo
The demonstration provided for Steve Krivit was far from convincing.
If every internet link didn’t link back to the same organization I would be less skeptical.
Hello, my 2 favorite cosmologists...
I was wondering if this comment about Peebles’ “Quantum Mechanics” deuteron tunneling rings a bell?
Tradenator
Total Posts: 950 Joined: Sep 2006
Posted: 2011-06-27 01:21 See Peebles’ “Quantum Mechanics” book, chapter 1, section 9 for a description of tunneling with deuterons (cold fusion). In particular, read the last paragraph’s discussion on compressing the electron wave function and the realism of the corresponding energies involved.
I think it’s probably a sham, but I’m willing to be convinced.
You mean these nuclearphynance guys link back to Rossi somehow?
I note that Tradenator joined in 2006, how is that possible if Rossi’s putting up the Defkalion website only this year?
You should join forces with fellow FReeper Swordmaker and start pimping the *iE-Cat*
I guess basically the way I’d put it is that he’s using his own money and says he’ll have a working plant in October. If he’s a fraud we’ll find out soon and spectacularly, and not too many people will be out of their hard earned cash.
They’re having similar discussions at the Vortex-L mailing list
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
Note that Horace Hefner is the author of the “Deflation Fusion” theory and Jed Rothwell is the keeper of the LENR-CANR website http://www.lenr-canr.org/
DEFLATION FUSION
Saturday, January 01, 2011 3:40:33 AM · by Kevmo · 49 replies
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2650125/posts
Journal of Nuclear Physics ^ | December 10, 2010 | Horace Heffner
Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat
Horace Heffner
Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:00:04 -0700
On Jun 24, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:
YOW — WHAT YOU JUST SAID !!!!
On 11-06-24 04:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
So the only way for Rossi to make it produce a little steam and a lot of hot water would be for him to adjust the anomalous heat output. It would be a miracle if Rossi has such good control over the anomalous heat that he can push the temperature up to 99°C and have mostly liquid water go through plus a little steam. If he can do that, he has truly mastered cold fusion!
Jed, man, think about that — don’t just jerk your knee at me in an automatic defense of Rossi, really think about it.
Rossi has a factor of SEVEN in output level in the range he has to hit in order to produce SOME steam and SOME hot water, and you have just said it would be hard for him to control the anomalous heat well enough to do that.
But Rossi’s claiming to have produced exactly enough heat to EXACTLY vaporize all the input water, and NOT HEAT THE STEAM beyond boiling — that target is orders of magnitude smaller than the target he’d need to hit to produce some steam and some hot water! If he overshoots his “dry steam” power level by even a little, the steam temperature will go up by a lot; the specific heat of steam is very small compared to the heat of vaporization of water. But the temperature never rises more than about a degree over boiling!
Jed, the point you just made is the point that’s been bugging me all along — it would take a miracle of fine control to generate EXACTLY enough anomalous heat to EXACTLY vaporize all the input water, without superheating the steam, and without leaving wet steam or having the device spit water!
There’s no evidence of that degree of control, no evidence of a feedback loop which could be providing it, no reason except wishful thinking to believe such control exists ... so the conclusion is that he’s actually got the power level set somewhere within the “factor of 7” window, and he’s producing very wet steam or a mix of steam and liquid water; he does *NOT* have it “right on the edge”, producing dry steam just over the boiling point. It’s absurd to think he could exercise the level of precise control needed to produce “exactly dry steam”.
(And that about uses up my Friday night send-some-useless-email time...)
Hi Stephen,
It is not difficult at all to achieve something that *looks* like perfectly regulated high thermal output by simply using percolator type effects to dump water into the output hose. I commented on this earlier in another thread, quoted below.
On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:35 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
If you look at the E-cat design you can see that it has the potential to act similar to a coffee percolator. See:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VIn_mQi1H-M/TZ1ZIpKD4-I/AAAAAAAALAE/ xo1T4ZRm41o/s1600/ECAT_explained.jpg
http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/search/en/WO2009125444
It is a boiling chamber followed by a vertical tube and elevated ejection port. A relative humidity sensor will max out at 100%, and would not be capable of detecting a percolator style of operation. It is merely a polymer or metal oxide thin film protected by a porous metal electrode. It can not measure steam quality. There is no reason to expect that water on the surface of the protecting porous metal electrode will have a significant effect on an already 100% RH reading.
A percolator can produce liquid mass flows far exceeding 1% by volume of gas. The amount of percolation obtained can be controlled by controlling the ratio of the flow of water to the amount of heat applied to the chamber. Active controllers exist in the Rossi device.
Water has been seen coming out of the hose. Unless careful measurements are taken it is not known the quantity of water vs gas.
On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:53 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
It is notable that the power input varies depending on the controller actions, that if the power input (plus any nuclear output heat if any) should become less than that required to convert all the input water to steam then the liquid excess will eventually simply overflow, i.e. be pumped out into the hose and down the drain.
Note that the pump rate is small, on the order of a few cc per second, so it can take a while to fill up a hose held upright into the air, even if the device itself is full of water - which probably can not happen due to percolator type effects.
Ironically, all that is required to get “excess” heat is to *reduce* the input power occasionally (or even permanently) so as to pump some excess water out instead of steam.
Something that would obviously be helpful for demos would be the use of translucent tubing, such as polyamide (nylon) tubing, which is good up to 100 °C, instead of black rubber. See:
http://www.graylineinc.com/tubing-materials/nylon.html
A transparent U-trap just past the current steam exit might prove informative.
This kind of optimization of systematic error could happen unintentionally. The original E-cats used a pulsed pump which would optimize the percolator effects. The smaller E-cats have a shorter “chimney”, which further optimizes such an effect and makes it even more feasible and fast acting even if a smaller non-pulsed pump is used.
Best regards,
Horace Heffner
no comprehendo
I’m betting sock puppet.
Anybody can sign up and post at that website (and note that the first commenter suggests that question should be put elsewhere).
The links in the OP link to sites that (mirable dictu!) seem to describe physics but seem also to only describe e-cat. I’ve never seen anything on a mainstream physics site (or any e-cat link that went to a legitimate physics site).
Look, this technology, if true, would be worth a fortune. Rossi would have started a company and launched small generators a long time ago and said ‘screw the big money, the big money will come when I show that it works’.
My 50th of a dollar.
He has rounded up 400M Euros from investors. That’s 6X as much money attracted in one year as Mills has gathered in 20 years.
If it is a scam, it’s a big one, and worth following if only for just that reason alone.
Investing 400 million in Xanthi for “cold fusion” of hydrogen
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2738942/posts
Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:30:41 AM · by Kevmo · 48 replies
Energy Press ^ | June 23 2011 | Energy Press
Look, this technology, if true, would be worth a fortune. Rossi would have started a company and launched small generators a long time ago and said ‘screw the big money, the big money will come when I show that it works’.
***That’s exactly what he is doing and also exactly what he is saying. My stance is, how can I get in on the ground floor? The guys who made the biggest money in the California gold rush were the ones selling shovels and blue jeans and mining equipment.
The demonstration provided for Steve Krivit was far from convincing.
***I know. I’m the one who posted that thread. Did you read what Jed Rothwell came up with?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2736442/posts#48
It could just boil down to a simple miscommunication due to language barrier.
Or... it could be a scam. But the discussion on Vortex-L doesn’t seem to support the scam angle.
I read that thread and think I posted on it. I make the remark in this thread for the benefit of posters who aren’t familiar with Krivit’s video. I’m going to read the comments at the link you provided now.
Impacting someelses income stream is not my concern
If they deliberately slow the importation of the device, that’s just blatant corruption
If it works... it would save every household thousands per year
Just don’t put all your eggs into e-cat s’all I’m sayin.
OTHER sites devoted to high energy physics really don't want to hear about it.
All of which makes sense.
Weggener's hypothesis about moving continents didn't get accepted until a century after he proposed it. The scientific journals waited until somebody came up with some evidence for a mechanism to move the continents ~ to wit, tectonic plates.
More recently there have been proposals that tectonic plates don't really exist ~ that they are an illusion ~ and we still don't know why the continents move ~ but that doesn't matter since we now have scientific instruments that show us that movement.
What is going to happen here is somebody is going to have to come up with a theory for the conversion of quarks before any of the LENR theses are accepted. That, of course, will simultaneously trash all the theories underlying the current understanding of high energy physics.
They will be mad as wet hens I am sure.
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