It hertz when you do that – power grid to stop regulating 60 Hz frequency

Watts Up With That? ^ | June 25,2011 | Anthony Watts

[brityank]

It hertz when you do that – power grid to stop regulating 60 Hz frequency

Posted on June 25, 2011 by Anthony Watts

“Experiment” on the US power grid will change the way some clocks and other equipment function.

A 60 hertz sine wave, over one cycle (360°). The dashed line represents the root mean square (RMS) value at about 0.707 Image: Wikipedia)

Story submitted by Joe Ryan

The AP has released an “exclusive” story concerning the nationwide “experiment” that will be conducted on the US power grid. The experiment will relieve the power providers from the duty of regulating the frequency of power on the line.

Normally the power stations condition their power to a frequency of 60 cycles a second, a frequency that many old clocks use to maintain their time. With the new standard, or lack of standard, these clocks will stop keeping time properly.

But the problem is more than that.

First, we have this gem from Joe McLelland who heads the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (from AP article):

“Is anyone using the grid to keep track of time?” McClelland said. “Let’s see if anyone complains if we eliminate it.”

… forgive me for not getting warm fuzzies from this. Likewise, Demetrios Matsakis, head of the time service department at the U.S. Naval Observatory, had this to say (AP Article again):

“A lot of people are going to have things break and they’re not going to know why,”

So, we have what appears to be an untested, for the hell of it, “experimental” major change to the US electrical grid coming in a few weeks and those in charge aren’t really sure how it will work or if it may break something?

Not only is this what a LAB is for, but it is also something that the Federal Government should be TELLING people about in advance, and not in an AP “exclusive” press release.

[Doe Eyes]

Power-grid experiment could confuse electric clocks

No doubt that the frequency variance proposed could affect some electric clocks (14 seconds a day for the one in Groundhog Day).

I am somewhat shocked to see Freepers using MSNBC as a source. Do you miss Keith Olbermann?

[meyer]

The graphs are correct - it isn't unusual to briefly drop below 59.95 HZ, and occasionally, we hit above 60.05 HZ as well. The two biggest drivers of frequency excursions outside of the 0.05 HZ bandwidth are loss of large generating units on the interconnection and major changes in transaction schedules between different utilities.

I remember a few years ago when a utility had 2 1200+ megawatt generators trip off line at the same time. Frequency dipped to 59.87 HZ. One of my industrial customers actually experienced an automatic transfer to his backup generator due to operation of an underfrequency relay.

[txhurl]

Who?

MSNBC ^ | June 24, 2011 | Seth Borenstein
WASHINGTON —

[Erasmus]

Does it use WWVB? Or does it have one of those premium, temperature-compensated crystal time bases?

Neither. I think it was just the luck of the draw.

A colleague of mine has a swiss-made electronic watch calibrator. It can sense the 32 KHz pulses and measure them.

Quartz watches used to have trimmer capacitors, but modern watch chips apparently have internal compensations, either digital or analog. Access to those adjustments must be by some digital interface, but I don't know the details.

[meyer]

Looks to me like they are proposing tighter not looser frequency control and reading the other docs mainly between interconnections.

They are, though that's a somewhat different issue from the experimental elimination of time error correction. And they should - I watch the frequency as part of my job, and I would agree that tightening the frequency response requirements might be a good idea.

[Erasmus]

I have an old electric that used to belong to my grandmother. It had a synchronous motor driving a gear train. However, it was a first generation synchronous motor: It had a gnarled knob on the back you needed to give a twist to to get it going. It kept great time (unless you twisted the knob the wrong way, in which case it kept great time in reverse).

That's what I was tweaking Ole Okie about in re his AR turntable. The first ones were powered by a small synchronous motor--essentially a clock motor. The main motor could start up with equal probability in either direction, depending on the phase of the moon, or quantum fluctuations ≤}B^). So they added a second, smaller motor, which always started up the right way, and belted it over to the main motor pulley.

Later, AR found a synchronous motor that would always start the right direction, so the second motor wasn't needed.

My original AR had both motors, but I sent it in to AR and they updated it to the single motor type.

[loungitude]

I was more asking the question. I am more concerned with the effect of this change on big things than on household appliances.

[loungitude]

Please see post 122.

[MindBender26]

But are they now talking about eliminating these phasing and voltage safeguards.

Never did understand 3-phase power... or why we have it.

[relictele]

Apparently not too much per this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2740219/posts?page=70#70

I’ve got three Strats and love ‘em but those pickups are noisy no doubt. I’ve got a Gibson SG waiting at the UPS counter this week though ;)

[ThE_RiPpEr.]

We have medical equipment connected to uninterpretable power supplies that will switch off normal power and run on battery if it senses the frequency is out of tolerance.

This could cause serious issues.

[bmwcyle]

Then we can all go to microprocessor controlled appliances so they can turn our devices on and off remotely.

[GOPJ]

Maybe it’s the new ‘cash for clunkers’ except the government won’t give us money to destroy our ‘clunkers’... Instead the grid will destroy our central AC units, stoves, fridges etc... My central AC was in the $10,000 range - wonder if my home owner’s insurance will cover it?

[GOPJ]

Drifts in frequency across what is supposed to be a unified grid will also randomly pop circuit breakers and make emergency power routing (say in the event of storm damage) more difficult or impossible.

Those of us who live in Florida - in areas that are lightning capitals of the world - are thrilled. /s

[Cyber Liberty]

flr

[fanfan]

.

[Hawthorn]

>> Some people on here are predicting doom, and inventing conspiracies <<

Of course. That’s ALWAYS more fun than studying the facts!

[Hawthorn]

>> I am somewhat shocked to see Freepers using MSNBC as a source <<

When you enjoy dreaming up dumb conspiracy theories, just about any source is good!

[Ole Okie]

Uno.

[JimC214]

I had a 1988 Tanqueray Tonic Green Stratocaster a few years ago. The middle pick up was reverse wound so when it as on in combo with any other pick up, acted like a humbucker. so there was no hum.