Posted on 06/11/2011 3:46:44 PM PDT by Kartographer
Agreed.
Or invest it in *stuff* and see a 30% appreciation in its value in just 6 months or so.
However, I honestly think everyone is going to be hosed, no matter what we do.
sounds like the cookies my mom made and they were delicious, she called them JimJams....the cookies were thin not fat but boy they were good...My daughter use to make a 2 or 3 (depending on what was available) fruit preserves. It was awesome...
I and many of the people I know (some of whom are very successful business people) are doing exactly that, and accumulating many other things as well.
Precisely my own experience, as well. In fact, I was sort of leaning toward “they will manage to pull things out of the fire and life will go on as usual” until I began to hear this same demographic talking about canning and water purification. That made it more real.
As to the seeds, I have begun to save some from each crop, indoors and out. The thing about seeds is that even the best last 3 years and even then have reduced germination. I am waiting til the very last minute to lay in a supply that will plant that first Catastrophe Year garden. Then, if that first summer has bad weather, we will still have seeds for the following year, regardless.
I am thinking of vacuum packing and freezing seeds for my favorite hybrids, just because I love their produce. I am also growing some saved seeds from supermarket favorites because in 8 generations, it may be possible to get them to breed back true. There is an interesting ongoing project to breed larger fruit from dwarf varieties and to increase the number of dwarf tomato species:
http://dwarftomatoproject.net/History.php
Very relevant to indoor growers. My favorite true dwarf/miniature tomato for hydro gardens is Red Robin. If anyone runs across miniature sweet colored peppers in the stores, save the seeds. The ones I have growing at the moment are quite strong and vigorous and loaded with 2”-2 1/2” peppers that are about to start turning red. I am told they grow true to color of the parent fruit, so mine should be red.
With regard to quality of life: I intend to keep my hot tub and my pool. I have already experimented with using less electricity by shortening the times they are running and not trying to keep the pool up to heat if the weather isn’t co-operating. As long as we have 3-5 day weather forecasting, I can take advantage of the sun and air temperature to reduce the amount of heat needed. I use a bit more shock and have not had any really adverse results in two summers, both of them relatively cool. Hot tub filters can be cleaned with any product used to clean drains, just dilute it and rinse excessively well. Our pool uses sand and we do a siphon for the initial cleaning each year to bypass the sand, keeping it cleaner. When we do change the sand out, we let it sit in the sun and rain in a perforated container. It can be reused, again, with no adverse effects. Not that the sand is expensive, but I worry more about distribution problems in obtaining things we take for granted.
As long as the various maritime cops allow it, my husband will continue to sail. That is getting more difficult, of course, as they see sailors as a revenue source. The same is happening to shore fishermen. One local man got a $450 ticket for having one bluegill over the 25 fish limit. He was using a clicker counter and it was an honest mistake, but the DNR is relentless.
Length of survival at my age (pushing 70)is not as important as maintaining some quality of lifestyle. At least as much as possible, as long as possible. Good to know there are others out there!
Are you using your fingers, or do you have things like a hoe, trowel, etc?
I absolutely agree that preppers should be encouraged.
The thing I’d encourage the most is knowledge. Buying pesticides doesn’t make one a competent gardener or farmer any more than buying a gun makes someone competent in a firefight. Sure, they might be prerequisites, but if having only the tool elevated one to competency, then we’d see a LOT more progress in the third world when we give them modern ag implements and technologies. Instead, we see... more of the same nonsense, only on a bigger scale.
BTW - your experience with vinegar is absolutely true. I saw research 10+ years ago using a 20% solution of glacial acetic acid in water, applied topically to plants. It is like a flamethrower. At the time, the researchers were looking for a replacement for the herbicide Grammoxone(r) which is also known to hippies everywhere as Paraquat, the herbicide we used in South America to spoil a whole lot of dope fields. Grammoxone is great stuff... for those who know how to handle it. Because there is no antidote for anyone who might ingest it, it is a restricted product, requiring an applicator’s license to even buy it. Acetic acid does the job just as well, without the need for any licensing.
I just know that there’s a whole lot of people who think that buying the right “widget” will suddenly make them Uber-prepper. It won’t. I know because I learned this the hard way. Having lived out in some of the least populated area left in the lower 48, where we were 120 miles to the nearest hospital or really well stocked hardware store, we became quite inventive after nine years. The result of the experience is that I now realize that having the right tools, raw materials and experience can make people unstoppable - utterly impervious to government nonsense. But the key is the knowledge, then knowing what minimum raw materials and tooling you’d need if things really got rough.
eg, the ballistic vest? What nonsense. By the time you’re strapping that on, things have gotten way, way, way out of hand, and you need to be asking the question “WTF am I still doing in this particular place at this particular time?” Because having a vest will in no way be as smart as simply not being where a vest is necessary. For the expense of a vest, I’d rather see someone own a small, general purpose welding rig or oxy-acetylene rig, with their own bottles.
From my perspective, I’m a tool slut. I hate having to think about the situation of “I have X, but it is broken and now, I don’t know who could fix that.” BS on that, I want to be able to fix most anything myself. Further, for the investment in a small welding rig and small lathe and some knowledge, most homeowners and DIY’ers could make most any small tools that they need. With oxy-acetylene rigs, one can cut steel, weld steel, and (most importantly) harden steel in tools.
Becoming self sufficient is great... until folks realize that without some basic knowledge, they’re quickly going back to pre-Bronze-age technology without the ability to buy tools. Suddenly, folks without this knowledge aren’t quite as self-sufficient as they’d like to think.
ps — pyrethrins are a great class of products, just don’t use them again and again and again without cycling into some other pesticide, like an OP, sulphur, beneficial insect/mite/etc. Insects can adapt to pyrethrins relatively quickly. Everyone should learn a thing or two about “Integrated Pest Management” so they don’t get on the chemical treadmill inadvertently.
Their relatives just come back and hand-picking bugs takes hours.
I try to use organic methods, just to not expose myself or family to poisons, too, but I do not agree to leave a portion of my crop to the critters. They don’t think about what to leave me, after all. If the bugs move in, I dust.
From my perspective, I’m a tool slut. I hate having to think about the situation of “I have X, but it is broken and now, I don’t know who could fix that.” BS on that, I want to be able to fix most anything myself. Further, for the investment in a small welding rig and small lathe and some knowledge, most homeowners and DIY’ers could make most any small tools that they need. With oxy-acetylene rigs, one can cut steel, weld steel, and (most importantly) harden steel in tools.
You sound like my husband. As a city kid transplanted to the country, after 37 years he has learned to do all that. And w/o a lathe. Although, once upon a time, one of the boys out here did get a *free*(except for the transport) industrial metal lathe. It went from barn to barn as it was huge, took up half the place and really, had no utility in a home shop. Took 2-4 guys and heavy equipment to move it. Mostly, they would hang out and admire it(!).
He has the oxy-acetylene tanks and welding stuff, too. Rivets work, in many situations.I am less tool-oriented:gorilla tape, JB Kwik Weld, silicon fusion tape.
20% glacial acetic acid? Wow. Sounds like overkill! I used 3Tbs of Braggs 5% in a gallon of water.
Thanks for the IPM tip. There is really so much to learn.We have a lot of commercial organic farms here and I utilize their knowledge when possible. It has been a gift to have had all these years to prepare, make mistakes and learn what works.
Of course, I have modern conveniences like hoes and trowels but fingers are the quickest and easiest tools to use.
While I don’t think the coming hard times will be a Mad Max world writ large I do believe that a “victory garden” can be a good thing . Also knowing how to can foods is not really a bad idea either .
Disaster provisions - everyone in the coastal states do this and we just add to them every hurricane season. If the time comes when I need seeds (I have no yard to grow them in) I would need an underground bunker and nukes to keep my stuff from being stolen. I plan not to be here anyway.
I got my first rabbit Friday. Once we get settled in together, I’ll get her some little friends.
I have given this stuff a lot of though. Gardens are great food extenders and good for some things, but if it really gets bad you will need to defend them.
If things get that bad, we will have other issues to worry about.
Save the gas. Ferrous metals can easily be manipulated(for hardness etc) in good old fashioned fire.
FR needs an 'ignore' button...i could read the other 50% of the post w/o having to waste time...
For some steels, yes.
When you want to make tools and heat treat tool steel, it is best to not add anything to the metal by way of impurities in the fire. That’s why I like propane or other forges where I get a nice, clean flame. If people really want to be prepped for making their own tools, they should lay away from O-1 and A2 tool steels. Very useful stuff.
What is the value of silver & gold if a reserve note is worthless? I wouldn’t trade you more than a couple cans of beans for a oz of gold if we woke up to a different reality next week. A hatchet & ax would be worth their weigh in either metal when gas is unavailable. Do you think we would enter a mad max scenario and some time later become civilized and be capable of safely trading commodities, foodstuffs &etc..?
I’d imagine in that it would be like “The Road” a couple months after...
Greens in the pacific northwest in January? Do you consider San Francisco the PNW? If it does grow how long would you live on a couple salads? Nothing in Seattle is growing in December let alone January unless it is in a protected & heated greenhouse. Brussel sprouts & cabbage will stay alive over the winter outside. Carrots last all winter in the ground too, but potatoes rot.
I will agree with you that deer are delicious, but if your hunting skills rival your garden I suspect someone hunts for you.
Figure out your calorie intake before you depend on your greens my friend.
I cannot understand the relevance of these small localized riots you listed with a economic disruption? I don’t think anyone on this thread is talking about a race riot??
Check out what happened to the middle class in Argentina over the last decade. It wasn’t a cholo riot my friend.
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