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To: reformedliberal

I absolutely agree that preppers should be encouraged.

The thing I’d encourage the most is knowledge. Buying pesticides doesn’t make one a competent gardener or farmer any more than buying a gun makes someone competent in a firefight. Sure, they might be prerequisites, but if having only the tool elevated one to competency, then we’d see a LOT more progress in the third world when we give them modern ag implements and technologies. Instead, we see... more of the same nonsense, only on a bigger scale.

BTW - your experience with vinegar is absolutely true. I saw research 10+ years ago using a 20% solution of glacial acetic acid in water, applied topically to plants. It is like a flamethrower. At the time, the researchers were looking for a replacement for the herbicide Grammoxone(r) which is also known to hippies everywhere as Paraquat, the herbicide we used in South America to spoil a whole lot of dope fields. Grammoxone is great stuff... for those who know how to handle it. Because there is no antidote for anyone who might ingest it, it is a restricted product, requiring an applicator’s license to even buy it. Acetic acid does the job just as well, without the need for any licensing.

I just know that there’s a whole lot of people who think that buying the right “widget” will suddenly make them Uber-prepper. It won’t. I know because I learned this the hard way. Having lived out in some of the least populated area left in the lower 48, where we were 120 miles to the nearest hospital or really well stocked hardware store, we became quite inventive after nine years. The result of the experience is that I now realize that having the right tools, raw materials and experience can make people unstoppable - utterly impervious to government nonsense. But the key is the knowledge, then knowing what minimum raw materials and tooling you’d need if things really got rough.

eg, the ballistic vest? What nonsense. By the time you’re strapping that on, things have gotten way, way, way out of hand, and you need to be asking the question “WTF am I still doing in this particular place at this particular time?” Because having a vest will in no way be as smart as simply not being where a vest is necessary. For the expense of a vest, I’d rather see someone own a small, general purpose welding rig or oxy-acetylene rig, with their own bottles.

From my perspective, I’m a tool slut. I hate having to think about the situation of “I have X, but it is broken and now, I don’t know who could fix that.” BS on that, I want to be able to fix most anything myself. Further, for the investment in a small welding rig and small lathe and some knowledge, most homeowners and DIY’ers could make most any small tools that they need. With oxy-acetylene rigs, one can cut steel, weld steel, and (most importantly) harden steel in tools.

Becoming self sufficient is great... until folks realize that without some basic knowledge, they’re quickly going back to pre-Bronze-age technology without the ability to buy tools. Suddenly, folks without this knowledge aren’t quite as self-sufficient as they’d like to think.

ps — pyrethrins are a great class of products, just don’t use them again and again and again without cycling into some other pesticide, like an OP, sulphur, beneficial insect/mite/etc. Insects can adapt to pyrethrins relatively quickly. Everyone should learn a thing or two about “Integrated Pest Management” so they don’t get on the chemical treadmill inadvertently.


285 posted on 06/12/2011 9:36:15 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: NVDave

From my perspective, I’m a tool slut. I hate having to think about the situation of “I have X, but it is broken and now, I don’t know who could fix that.” BS on that, I want to be able to fix most anything myself. Further, for the investment in a small welding rig and small lathe and some knowledge, most homeowners and DIY’ers could make most any small tools that they need. With oxy-acetylene rigs, one can cut steel, weld steel, and (most importantly) harden steel in tools.


You sound like my husband. As a city kid transplanted to the country, after 37 years he has learned to do all that. And w/o a lathe. Although, once upon a time, one of the boys out here did get a *free*(except for the transport) industrial metal lathe. It went from barn to barn as it was huge, took up half the place and really, had no utility in a home shop. Took 2-4 guys and heavy equipment to move it. Mostly, they would hang out and admire it(!).

He has the oxy-acetylene tanks and welding stuff, too. Rivets work, in many situations.I am less tool-oriented:gorilla tape, JB Kwik Weld, silicon fusion tape.

20% glacial acetic acid? Wow. Sounds like overkill! I used 3Tbs of Braggs 5% in a gallon of water.

Thanks for the IPM tip. There is really so much to learn.We have a lot of commercial organic farms here and I utilize their knowledge when possible. It has been a gift to have had all these years to prepare, make mistakes and learn what works.


287 posted on 06/12/2011 10:58:33 PM PDT by reformedliberal
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To: NVDave

Save the gas. Ferrous metals can easily be manipulated(for hardness etc) in good old fashioned fire.


293 posted on 06/13/2011 11:27:26 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Demons run when a good man goes to war.)
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