Posted on 05/03/2011 8:54:44 AM PDT by markomalley
Quite a few people whose intelligence I respect greatly -- including Ace of Spades and Wretchard -- are talking about a theory that makes so much sense, it scares me. Even though it's purely theory and speculation, it hangs together all too well.
For years, we've all had our suspicions that the Pakistani intelligence service -- the ISI -- is at the very least infiltrated by terrorists, and may in fact might be cooperating with them. India insists, with considerable justification, that the ISI was linked to some of the more horrific terrorist attacks they've suffered, and far too many times intelligence we've shared with the ISI has ended up in the hands of those who would most benefit from it.
But Ace, Wretchard, and others are considering an even more troubling possibility: could Al Qaeda, as we know it, actually be a wholly-owned subsidiary of the ISI?
Ace, as is his wont, goes for hyperbole and suggests that Al Qaeda from the outset was a subsidiary of the ISI. Wretchard, as is his wont, is a bit more reserved and suggests that some aspects of Al Qaeda and other groups are fronts for ISI.
In business terms, the possibilities are plenty. Is Al Qaeda a subsidiary, an acquisition, a merger, or a DBA?
To me, the origins of this theoretical ISI/Al Qaeda unification are not that important. What is more important is that we have the theory that the intelligence agency of a sovereign nation is also one of the leading terrorist organizations in the world. What is more important is that no one is quite certain whether the ISI is loyal to the Pakistani government, or a separate, rogue power that is largely independent of the government.
And what is most important is that Pakistan is also a nuclear power.
Worst case scenario: a nuclear power is also literally a terrorist state, using its intelligence agency to wage terror attacks around the world, focused mainly but not exclusively on the United States, as well as our interests and allies.
The discovery that Osama Bin Laden's hideout was in a suburb of Pakistan's capitol, in a neighborhood filled with military retirees, across the street from a police station, and half a mile from Pakistan's West Point strains credibility beyond the breaking point. It is simply not plausible that the Pakistanis had no idea Bin Laden was there, and had been there for years. And that raises a lot of questions that many people simply didn't want to even consider for so long.
I don’t know how accurate, but most definitely plausible. Al Qaeda killers caught, and it would give ISI “plausible deniability”
ISI hid Osama... Nothing else would surpise me.
I never understood why we were sleeping with the enemy that is Pakistan but figured wiser heads knew best. Perhaps, as a peon, I shouldn’t wonder how many secrets we’ve handed over to them and when they’ll use them against us. Nor should I question how many of my tax dollars are supporting terrorists and are killing our own. Who am I to say the whole area over there should have been a parking lot a decade ago.
Considering the known fact the Pakistani government sponsored and backed the Taliban since it came to power in 1995, a direct connection between ISI and al-Qaeda would not surprise me. I doubt AQ is a subsidiary of ISI, but AQ has certainly penetrated the ISI.
All you need to do is read Josef Bodansky’s books on terrorism where he details how the Pakistani ISI double dealed the US by taking money and using it to develop an Islamic terrorist network. You can find his books at Amazon.
Be careful, you will be accused of a conspiracy theory and labeled with a name like ISIer.
So they just threw Osama under the bus so to speak?
After seeing the Google map of Osama’s hideout, it was clear to me that the property was within the confines of the military base...
His usefulness has waned. Also, throws everyone off their track.....just sayin’
The US has used money as a defensive weapon and for whatever is then done with the cash, the continental US does not suffer as does London. Would we have done the same were we president? But now with all cash borrowed we can neither pay for peace, nor afford major defensive military action.
No doubt small operations are the wave of the future using technology and guts, while the enemy is still behind a bit on these tools....for the time being.
Why not? A group of terrorists located globally could be a useful tool to a poor country with not a lot of other military weight. A bit like riding a tiger, but all politicians and their egos have a “fallacy of control” so its entirely possible, indeed likely.
Al Qaeda is likely a “jr. partner” with ISI though. I fully believe the idea that Bin Laden was a bird in a guilded cage. The ISI knew where he was, and in fact, kept him under guard in Abottabad.
I have seen it argued that indeed, that the Saudis or the Paki’s started to see Osama bin Laden as less useful, so his death doesn’t matter much any longer to them.
Ironic that the last utility of OBL was to provide a BHO-centered distration to the royal wedding.
At the very least, there is quite a bit of merging between the two. If AQ peeps have worked their way to the top of ISI, then yes it’d be very close to the above scenario.
At the beginning: The Al Qaeda was founded in August 1988, the same month that President Zia ul-Haq was killed in a plane crash in Pakistan. General Zia was expected to be a sponsor of Al Qaeda and his death was a blow to the nascent organization. It was hoped that the head of ISI would replace Zia, but that did not happen. In 1990 Osama had moved to Saudi Arabia, but his organization contined to operate in Afghanistan. After Obama moved to the Sudan he met on various occasions with former Pakistan military who were former ISI and committed Islamists. Meanwhile, Osama was helping to finance an Islamist training center at Murdike near Lahore, Pakistan, and it became important to both Al Qaeda and the ISI. In 1996, when Bin Laden left the Sudan he flew first to Pakistan before he continued to Afghanistan. It was thought that while in Pakistan he met with ISI principles in order to gain approval for his use of Peshawar as a safe-haven, and to gain an appreciation of the ISI involvement with the growing Taleban presence in Afghanistan. In sum, there is enough history of OBL-ISI involvement to speculate that the ISI was responsible for finding him a home in Abottabad, and protecting him thereafter.
Yep, we got this one nailed down.
It is completely ludicrous to think that Bin Ladin could be some rogue hiding out without backing from other countries... more than one I believe. I saw him as more or less a mercenary. He apparently spent time in Iran also.
I believe that Bin Laden was compromised and that the U.S. government Bush/Obama could have taken him anytime they wanted. He simply was worth more alive than dead. Obama needed something big and worked out the details with Pakistan so then Bin Laden became worth more dead than alive.
Hey... Bin Laden might have been in competition with BeHO for the Mahdi position that Ahmadinejad keeps talking about.
Does that make Bin Laden an attempted USURPER?
I try to remember that politicians are the heads of the nations of the world. They are good at political calculus, a topic foreign to many. That’s what drives their decisions in their stance on issues.
IMHO, every nation’s political leadership is trying to come to terms with the inherent evil of islam insofar as it’s followers and leaders either outright declare or tacitly concur that Israel, America and the Western nations are the enemies of islam. That’s quite a quandry: we have an enemy who has declared war on us, but since the enemy claims to be a religion and our principles include freedom of religion, we feel logically unable to declare war back on the enemy.
Communism and Nazism never purported to be a religion, so there was never such a quandry.
In middle eastern nations like pakistan, a majority of the population agrees with the declaration of war on the West, America and Israel.
So what is a politician in pakistan - who wishes to stay in office - to do ? To the politician, there is one course of action, play both sides against each other, balancing on a tightrope that keeps the assassin and overthrower at bay by appeasing them, while simultaneously portraying an image that American politicians can take home to Americans and use to keep their constituents happy. Wow, what a compromise.
And so what to do with binladen ? Perhaps not want to know ? Seems doubtful that this would be kept secret from the highest levels; he’s not a common criminal, he’s a political turd for the government who was hidden under the rug. Tell bin laddem he can stay but he must keep his mouth shut seems to be what has transpired.
I wonder who built the binladen hideout house, and who designed it. Definitely this detail work was not done by those who lived in it. Numerous pakistanis, both inside and outside the pakistani government had to know binladden was there and kept silent for 5 years, in order for the building to have location selection, purchase, be permitted, designed by some architect with security in mind, built by some company, let alone sneaking the occupants in and leaving them completely alone for 5 years. The location itself speaks volumes, as it offers a position inside the last line of defense in the case of any disturbance: it is the home of the nation’s military elite. Were the binladen hideout to be off by itself, it would have been much more expendable by the military.
pakistan, in regards to it’s relationship with Western nations is a rotten apple with many worms, but that seems par for the ( abbottabad golf ?) course amongs middle eastern nations.
The mideast seem to be the bullies of the neighborhood who we have had to deal with for decades, and this shoot is the latest step in the deadly dance we have had with them since oil was discovered.
Their tenure as bully will last only as long as their energy supply; as this marches to it’s end, so does their significance in the world.
Can we ask every Congressman to take a stance on this humble request - I think the answer would fascinate most Americans.
Before we send one more penny to pakistan, before we trade anything with them, ever again, please riddle me this:
I know we “got” binladin, that’s great. Now, what about a list of every other islamic warrior that is within pakistans cities and towns ? I’m not asking about “the hinterlands” that are so “impossible” to control, I’ve heard that tune before and frankly it bores me. I want to know how many other terrorist-islamists, alkada, taliban, international terrorists, money-laundering operators, cyber-criminals, etc. are in pakistan. That the pakistani government is “unaware” of.
I like that they buy weapons from U.S. companies, it’s great for our exports, even if it’s being bought largely with U.S. “aid” dollars, er, U.S. tax dollars, anyway. But I think perhaps many Americans would be willing to halt those weaponry sales for a few years until we get an inventory of all the bad guys that are comfortably residing inside pakistan.
The question is an 800-pound gorilla that I haven’t heard much about in the “press”. Was binladen the ONLY terrorist that found refuge in pakistan ?
It’s a difficult scorecard for me to follow: who are America’s friends and enemies in the mideast.
It’s not quite as pat and dried as you might imagine.
Starting from the start, who, are what is called, “The Taliban”?
Most everyone in Pakistan, a nation of 177 million people, or half the population of the United States, are Muslims. So, do some of these Muslims call themselves “Taliban”. Well, sometimes. But the same guy who drives a tanker truck full of gasoline into Afghanistan for delivery to a US base during the weekdays, might be the same guy who is shooting at them with an AK-47 on the weekends, as a part time, minimum wage type second job.
In this part of the world, nothing is as it seems. Everyone lies about everything, on principle. Loyalty means nothing, and changes on a dime. The mercenary nature of things may be combined with religious extremism, or it may be entirely cynical.
And every conclusion I just made about the Taliban applies equally to the ISI.
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