Justice Hugo Black in DUNCAN v LOUISIANA (New Leo comment: If SADO was "raped" Obama is NBC)

Natural Born Citizen (blog) ^ | April 28, 2011 | Leo Donofrio

[Seizethecarp]

Dee Bee Says:

If a woman who is a US natural born citizen is raped on US soil, by a man who is not a US natural born citzen, and that child is born in the US, is the child a US natural born citizen?

Leo Donofrio: Yes the child is nbc. The child owes no allegiance to the country of the father. – leo

[MamaTexan]

Some FReepers have maintained that it doesn't matter whether Barry's parents were married, it only matters that THE FATHER IS NOT A US CITIZEN. They claim that NBC requires TWO US citizen parents.

Which is true.

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The only change needed to apply Leo's general construction to the specific construction which applies to Barry is to substitute the term “knocked-up” for the term “raped”.

Except a rapist is usually unknown to the victim. While I can see the reasoning that an unknown father would result in the child taking the citizenship of the only known parent, it's ludicrous, IMHO, for you to try to substitute one term for another.

In Barry's case, the father is both known and acknowledged.

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The officials in 1961 clearly suspected that BHO I was making a sham claim of divorce and that his US marriages were illegal bigamous marriages and/or sham marriages to gain an advantage in extending his visa.

What they suspected is immaterial. A court of law dissolved the marriage and any question of it's legality would have been addressed during the discovery phase of the proceeding.

[LucyT]

. . . . Check out more in Post # 12 by David, who also wrote this:

Anyone who thinks the Supreme Court is going to hold him ineligible because of the citizenship of one of his parents (which is going to be a contested factual question in any case) is living in a dream world.

-

In additiion, yesterday MHGinTN wrote:

but the reality is, there is no power in the USA which will now go after the liar-in-chief since the bureaucracy of a state (Hawaii) has now joined in the criminal behavior.

We are repeatedly discussing the same information. This investigation has reached a point of diminishing returns, therefore I will be pinging less often from now on. - Anyone wanting on or off the ping list, please frmail me.

[Seizethecarp]

“Except a rapist is usually unknown to the victim. While I can see the reasoning that an unknown father would result in the child taking the citizenship of the only known parent, it's ludicrous, IMHO, for you to try to substitute one term for another.”

That is not the hypothetical basis for Donofrio's comment. Donofrio addressed the specific hypothetical where the rapist is both known AND is known to be a NON-citizen!

Donofrio flat-out said that a child of a non-citizen father, a known non-citizen rapist, CAN be NBC despite NOT having two US citizen parents. Two US citizens are NOT required to be NBC per Leo.

[NoGrayZone]

I hear ya. You have been instrumental following and pinging everyone, so I know it must have been a lot of hard and very timely work for you.

I would LOVE to stay on your list, if you don't mind. =).

Thanks for everything you have done!!!(((hug)))

[Velveeta]

Thank you for everything, LucyT!

[Las Vegas Ron]

Leo Donofrio: Yes the child is nbc. The child owes no allegiance to the country of the father. – leo

We know obama has allegiance to his "father" and presumably his fathers country, he wrote a book about it.

Just sayin...

[little jeremiah]

Thank you, LucyT. So, I wonder what the next act is.

[bgill]

Hawaii claims to have a marriage record of them. If so, then there’s no rape.

Senior claims to have verbally told Kezia they were divorced which is considered a legal divorce in Kenya. If so, then Senior and Stanley Ann were legally married.

Since Stanley Ann chose to legally divorce him in a US court, then the US court accepted the marriage as legal.

[Seizethecarp]

“Senior claims to have verbally told Kezia they were divorced which is considered a legal divorce in Kenya. If so, then Senior and Stanley Ann were legally married.”

Senior lied about telling Kezia they were divorced, by all accounts. There is also no indication that his marriage to Kezia was a Muslim marriage, but rather a tribal marriage.

There is a letter in the Stanford archive, IIRC, from Sr. to Tom Mboya circa after the SADO marriage, in which Sr. asks Mboya to help take car of his wife (as in current wife) in Nairobi!

[Seizethecarp]

"What they suspected is immaterial. A court of law dissolved the marriage and any question of it's legality would have been addressed during the discovery phase of the proceeding."

Whether Hawaii considered Senior and SADO to be married is immaterial to whether the UK would consider the Hawaii marriage to be bigamous and thus invoke the illegitimacy clause of the 1948 BNA.

For Barry to be a UK subject and dual-citizen would depend on how the UK would apply their own 1948 BNA law and the Kenya Colonial 1902 Marriage Act.

Here is a comment I posted to Leo (which he has refused to publish) beginning with the Factcheck.org statement:

“As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.”

Parsing this statement, I note the careful lawyerly reluctance to explicitly state that Obama II, like his father, was also a British subject at birth. The statement only says that the 1948 BNA "governed the status" of his father's children in general. IOW, the statement invites the reader to conclude that BHO II was a dual citizen British subject at birth, but does not say so.

If the 1948 BNA "governs the status" of Obama Sr.'s children, then any exclusions in that act must be considered. As you recently blogged:

“The State Department Has “Always” Recognized And Abided By Foreign Laws Concerning US Citizens Born With Dual Nationality.”

Therefore we must not be squeamish in applying the 1948 BNA to Obama II.

The 1948 BNA says that the act does NOT apply to illegitimate children:

“(2) Subject to the provisions of section twenty-three of this Act, any reference in this Act to a child shall be construed as a reference to a legitimate child; and the expressions “father”, “ancestor” and “descended” shall be construed accordingly.”

http://www.uniset.ca/naty/BNA1948.htm

My understanding is that a bigamous marriage is a nullity and the children of a bigamous marriage are illegitimate under the UK Legitimacy Act of 1926. BHO II himself has recognized his stepmother, Kezia, and her children as family and wrote in “Dreams” of his father’s shortcomings and doubts about the marital status of his parents.

In a Daily Mail story about Kezia, presumably based on information provided by her, BHO Sr is described as a “bigamist” and the presumably legal Kenyan tribal marriage between Obama Sr. and Kezia is described in some detail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506338/Barack-Obamas-stepmother-living-Bracknell-reveals-close-bond---mother.html

In applying the 1948 BNA to determine whether a marriage is bigamous, it seems that UK authorities would look to the 1902 Kenya Marriage Act (KMA). From what I have found so far (not a lawyer) the 1902 KMA appears to have still been in effect in 1961 in Kenya Colony.

Under the 1902 KMA, tribal marriages are legal and subsequent marriages are bigamous, including even marriages following Muslim marriage:

37. Marriages under native law or custom.

“Any person who is married under this Act, or whose marriage is declared by this Act to be valid, shall be incapable during the continuance of such marriage of contracting a valid marriage under any native law or custom, but, save as aforesaid, nothing in this Act contained shall affect the validity of any marriage contracted under or in accordance with any native law or custom, or in any manner apply to marriages so contracted.”

“49. Contracting marriage under this Act when already married by native law or custom.

Whoever contracts a marriage under this Act, being at the time married in accordance with native law or custom or in accordance with Mohammedan law to any person other than the person with whom such marriage is contracted, shall be guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.”

http://www.kenyalaw.org/kenyalaw/klr_app/frames.php

[little jeremiah]

I don’t undesrtand Donofrio.

I think the argument that only one US citizen parent is needed for NBC status is dead wrong. Even if “politically expedient”.

[Kenny Bunk]

Granpa Obama paid Kezia's family 14 cows for Kezia. What happens to those cows when a Muslim chap takes an infidel woman as his next squeeze?

Enquiring minds want to know.

[Kenny Bunk]

I think what Leo is saying is that if the child is the result of rape by a foreigner, the foreigner's country has no jurisdiction over the child.

A pillaging army of medieval times left plenty of bastards behind, as did every army in WWII. Those children have no rights in, or allegiance to, the father's country. They are not dual citizens.

I also do not understand how this is quite applicable to Obama's case, since rape was never claimed and the children of a bigamist are usually considered legitimate. But, neither am I quite sure that Obama Sr. ever actually claimed paternity.

At the risk of becoming annoying, let me again suggest that perhaps the only way to get this fetid mess on the tables of the courts is for one state AG to throw up his hands, admit that he is as confused as we are, and keep Obama off the ballot in his state, forcing it to court BEFORE the election of '12.

However, if Obama doesn't think he needs that state to win, he can always simply choose to remain off the ballot!

[Kenny Bunk]

Hawaii claims to have a marriage record of them.

I had no idea. Thanks for the info.

[Seizethecarp]

At a minimum, Looks like BHO Sr. was required to register a Mohammedan divorce within seven days. A simple “verbal” divorce would not do it...

http://www.kenyalaw.org/kenyalaw/klr_app/frames.php

CHAPTER 1 - MOHAMMEDAN MARRIAGE AND DIVORCE REGISTRATION CODE

9. Registration of marriages and divorces.

Entries to be numbered. Method of application for registration.

Registration of marriages and divorces. 15 of 1961, Sch. 9.

The parties to a marriage or divorce recognized by Mohammedan law, or if the man or the woman or both are minors their respective lawful guardians, shall register such marriage or divorce with an assistant registrar within seven days from the celebration of such marriage or the pronouncement of such divorce, as the case may be.

[hoosiermama]

Information re: todays case at link above. TY OT

[Electric Graffiti]

"I don’t undesrtand Donofrio.
I think the argument that only one US citizen parent is needed for NBC status is dead wrong. Even if “politically expedient”.

I agree with you.....what happened to the notion of national security requirements vs. someone's supposed 'right' to run for POTUS.

If he was born in the United States to a Citizen father, then his case would be stronger.

Vattel in Bk 1 Sec 212, states the following.

§ 212. Citizens and natives.

The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.

The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it.

The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born.

I say, that, in order to be of the country,it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.

[bgill]

The marriage index has been posted somewhere around these eligibility threads. Maybe do a search for it on FR or google.

[bitt]

our best bet might be to get a 2 week just over the border alien to file for a primary in a large state like Texas.

Maybe Trump can fund him.

Then when the OBVIOUS problems with his eligibility are apparent to all, he can contest the (automatic) refusal of the AG to allow him on the ballot.

[Kenny Bunk]

Thanks Carp.

This mass of new information about Barack Sr. means another level of research.

My question to Trump is "When are you dropping 'The Other Shoe?" Now that he has flushed a BC out into the open he must drop the other shoe and talk "Natural Born Citizen."

I wonder if he's up to it.