Thanks Windflier, and thanks for getting involved. I'm seeing many more who are struggling through the misinformation being planted by Obama supporters who ‘troll’ Free Republic. There is an awful lot to read to become certain that anything that doesn't fit with our justices and framers is not true.
Mr. Rogers is a well-trained Obot. You will never convince him of anything, and will eventually realize that he/she doesn't care. For a remarkable history of the psychology of the far left, by someone who was once one of its rising stars, read David Horowitz’ “Unholy Alliance.” Marxist Leninist and Stalinist leaders in U.S. universities found ways to adjust when Stalin and Hitler joined forces. They adjusted and wrote apologetically when Khrushchev exposed the millions murdered by Stalin. They have an objective which seems more like a religion, and it has nothing to do with our Consitutional foundations. To belong, you accept the dogma. It may be about belonging for a group of people who feel alienated by 'normal' society.
I found a group of remarkable researchers at Free Republic from whom I am still learning every time they write. Find the thread created under Natural born citizen research by rxsid. The discoveries by Bushpilot, who discovers archived newspapers from the 18th century, and Patlin, who connects the writings of other framers, and danae, and others should be compiled into a Free Republic book. From Patlin I learned that Jefferson created the first law school in the U.S. Patlin (or was it Bushpilot?) found an obscure pamphlet in the Stanford Library, describing the history of William and Mary. Washington attended before the Revolution, but Jefferson, in 1779, carved our first law school out of the divinity school, and added, I believe, a chemistry department too. Jefferson established the law school curriculum around Vattel’s Law of Nations. James Munroe and John Marshall were among its students.
The more you learn about our history the more clear will be the intentions of our framers. I have access to a good sampling of law professors. It was discouraging to discover, at a ‘great’ law school, how few knew the significance of natural-born citizenship. But Leo Donofrio, who became understandably discouraged seeing how few could or would grasp the the truth, took another path to expose the truth.
Donofrio’s expose of Chester Arthur is one of the results, and a major contribution to our nation's history, though the MSM will do their best to bury its significance. Chester Arthur was, besides our first usurper, born to a citizen mother, and father who was not naturalized before he was born. Like Obama, Arthur used the distraction of hiding his birth records to keep anyone from looking at his father's citizenship. Arthur probably manufactured the distraction as Obama has. There is quite a thorough book, ‘Gentleman Boss’ by Thomas Reeves which makes it clear that Arthur was no stranger to intrigue and deception.
I am delighted to have anything I contribute ‘lifted.’ I get sloppy, so don't hesitate to correct my spelling or grammar. We all have a job to do educating the public which has been misled by MSM, by professional (paid) Obama operatives, and, dare I say it, World Net Daily, which hammers the tabloid issues mercilessly while skipping Obama’s patent Constitutional ineligibility for having an alien father. I'm a capitalist too, but if WND had used their billboards to raise the public consciousness about the real issue “Your Dad Swore sole allgiance to which nation?” or “You say your parents were both citizens?” he might already be awaiting trial for the other felonies, election fraud, social security fraud, etc, and watching Joe Biden entertain audiences with his imaginative personal histories.
Explaining that a ‘native-born’ citizen is not a ‘natural-born citizen or a ‘native’ (the term used by Vattel and by Morrison Waite in Minor v. Happersett) is not easy. I wondered if someone did it to confuse people? The old use for ‘native’, before the 14th Amendment, was synonymous with natural-born citizen. More recently, and all over the Congressional Archives you will find ‘native-born’ citizen of the U.S.’ The term Obama used for himself. It is the term used for anchor babies, and for Wong Kim Ark. It means a citizen naturalized by Title 8, which is in turn, based upon the 14th Amendment. Because Title 8 is the result of Congress doing as they were asked to do in Article I Section 8, they established ‘an Uniform Rule of Naturalization.’ It applies to everyone not a natural born citizen.
Some naturalized citizens are sometimes confusingly referred to in US Code as ‘native-born’ citizens, because they were born on our soil. But Congress cannot interpret or modify constitutional provisions, and never discusses natural-born citizens. Only 'natural-born' citizens can be president. Obama is a naturalized citizen, and eligible to hold every government office but the presidency.
The key to understanding the comment made by Horace Gray in Wong Kim Ark that "all citizens are either natural or naturalized" is context. I don't pretend to have the exact number but have heard it said the over ninety percent of our nation's citizens are natural born. Naturalized citizens have all the rights of natural born citizens, they just can't be presidents. Our framers didn't treat the presidency as a 'right.' The children of naturalized citizens can be president. A foreign father makes Obama naturalized. McCain's birth in Panama made naturalization necessary, and McCain, unlike Obama and Wong Kim Ark, is not a 'native-born' citizen. He is a citizen because his parents were. One parent would have been enough, given some residency requirement. Wong Kim Ark was born to Chinese parents in San Francisco. All three are Title 8 naturalized citizens, ineligible to be president.
My wife says "but we are a nation of immigrants." The objective of our founders and framers was first to defend our citizens. This one restriction was to protect our nation from those who don't share allegiance for our form of government, expecially important to our founders when the majority of our colonial subjects was presumed still to prefer the protection of the crown. The English still do not permit naturalized (commonwealth subjects) subjects to become Members for Parliament.
McCain was naturalized under Title 8, but under another provision. Since the 1790 Nationality act was modified in 1795 to remove reference to foreign born children of citizens as NBC, there is no US Code which mentions natural born citizens. Had Orrin Hatch’s 2003 attempt to amend Article II Section 1 succeeded, not only would Schwarzenegger be eligible to run, but so would Obama, McCain, Jindal, and, from what we know now, Rubio. In 25 attempts, no effort to amend Article II Section 1 has cleared Congress. Sadly, it appears that many of our presumed conservative leaders would prefer to forget about Article II, Section 1 and are discussion Jindal's possible candidacy as if the Constitution were meaningless. Rubio is seeming the opportunist, finger to the air, to see if we suspend the Constitution so that the Republicans might pick up Latino votes.
Mario Apuzzo makes a good case that our framers intended jus sanguinis - born of citizen parents - to be the single criterion for natural born citizenship. He cites a wonderful essay by one of our Continental Congress Presidents, Dr. David Ramsay, “A Dissertation on Citizenship...” (found on Scribd.com, or puzo1.blogspot.com). Read Dr. Ramsay, who was also the official historian for the Continental Congress, for a brilliant explanation of how subjects are different from citizens.
While I have great respect for Mr.Apuzzo, and urge anyone who wants to learn the legal foundations of Obama’s ineligibility to read his writing, Chief Justice John Marshall, both a founder and framer, repeated ‘born on our soil of citizen parents’ citing Vattel. Vattel, in Book 1, pargraph 217, does address foreign born children of citizens in our Armies, but the ten or so justices who repeat the Vattel definition as dicta (not necessary for the determination of the case they are deciding, but information they felt was important to state) never mention it. Not every principle addressed by Vattel was integrated into our Constitution, but it seems clear the Vattel was our blueprint.
The Supreme Court might justify such an interpretation, but they won't get near it with Obama’s eligibility being questioned, particularly with Kagan and Sotomayor, who have refused to recuse themselves from other Obama eligibility cases brought to the court. Kagan and Sotomayor clearly have a fiduciary interest in the decision; politics have prevailed over the Constitution. There are rules, but no law which can prevent Kagan or Sotomayor from doing anything they want. Kagan and Sotomayor will be removed when Obama’s illegitimacy is recognized, as it must be in future history, even if we cease to be a Constitutional Republic. After Obama the U.S. president may be voted on by the United Nations General Assembly, or by a Soros’ Open Society Foundation committee. Nothing can retrospectively cause Barack Obama, presuming he has told us the truth, to have been “...born in the country of parents who are citizens:” Chief Justice John Marshall citing Vattel in The Venus, 12 U.S. 253, para 289.
Mr. Rogers is a well-trained Obot. You will never convince him of anything, and will eventually realize that he/she doesn't care.
My experience at this website is that every dog has its day. He'll eventually 'come to the light', and when he does, it'll be 250,000 Amps of pure zot.
I found a group of remarkable researchers at Free Republic from whom I am still learning every time they write. Find the thread created under Natural born citizen research by rxsid.
The discoveries by Bushpilot, who discovers archived newspapers from the 18th century, and Patlin, who connects the writings of other framers, and Danae and others, should be compiled into a Free Republic book.
I wholeheartedly agree. I just wish that I had saved every important post that I've read on the bc issue at FR over the years. It would probably tally half a million words, hundreds of links, and scores of photographs and diagrams. What an invaluable resource that would be in this fight.