Obama's aunt angry at Trump (Now she claims family got letter from BHO Sr. in Hawaii)

WHDH-TV / CNN ^ | April 11, 2011

[2ndDivisionVet]

BOSTON - Barack Obama's aunt, Zeituni Onyango, says Donald Trump disrespected her family by questioning the president's birthplace.

Trump quoted Obama's grandmother when she claimed to have witnessed Barack Obama's birth in Kenya, and Onyango says that is not true.....

[little jeremiah]

Looks like “our” Zero all right.

[little jeremiah]

Thank you, will check it out in a bit.

[little jeremiah]

Currently parents toilet train kids a lot later than they did a couple of generations ago, just an observation.

[Greenperson]

I think you will find that people started potty training children at a much younger age in the 50s and 60s than they do today. Girls usually quicker to catch on than boys.

Did you read what Mary said? She said she babysat Obama in January or February, when her daughter, her FIRST child, was 18 months old.

Her daughter was 18 months old in January/February 1961 but 30 months old by January/February 1962 (which is the year that Charlette incorrectly calculated, based upon Mary’s memory of her daughter being 18 months old at the time).

By 30 months, Mary’s daughter would have been toilet trained or in the process of being toilet trained. Either would have made the timeframe that much more memorable for Mary.

Imagine caring for an infant and a toddler in the “terrible twos” versus an infant and an 18-month old, who is much more dependent upon mommy and more likely to resent an interloper.

Mothers will tell you that there’s a big difference between an 18-month-old and a 30-month-old.

Mary did not say, ever, that she babysat Obama in the fall. Even after she changed her story, she said it was in the springtime.

[Greenperson]

“If you trace the hair line of the lighter one and compare that to Ohomo’s, they look identical to me, and yes the ear is very close to being the same.”
****

The lighter one is supposed to be Mark’s full brother, David, who mysteriously died (no evidence) and who was constantly being mistaken for Obama, when Obama first went to Kogelo. News reports say that residents of Kogelo continually had to be reminded that it’s “Barry” not “David”. When reporters refer to Barry as Mark’s half-brother, Mark corrects them and says Barry is his “brother”.

[Greenperson]

You believe that it’s impossible for SADO, as you call her, to have had a baby in January/February 1961. Do you remember that SADO wrote her friends about how she loved wearing muu muus to college, during her first semester in Hawaii? A muu muu can cover a pregnancy quite well.

SADO, although she attended the fall semester at U of HI in 1960, didn’t attend the next semester, starting in 1961. She supposedly married in February 1961.

Did she drop out of college after that first semester to give birth, early in 1961? Did she then marry to legitimize her child, supposedly in February 1961?

She was in Seattle by the fall of 1961. What makes more sense?

That she had a baby in August in Hawaii, after inexplicably and unnecessarily having dropped out of college in January, when only a month or so pregnant, but the very next month, after giving birth in August, she was at college on the mainland with a tiny newborn baby OR

that she dropped out of college after school ended in December 1960, gave birth a month or so later, married quickly, and made arrangements to continue her college education on the mainland, in Seattle, when the baby was 7 or 8 months old?

[little jeremiah]

Read it, and unfortunately a bit of some of the other entries, although I tried not to. (Shudder)

So if suits were involved at that time, obviously plenty of suits know the score now.

Major grrrr.

[little jeremiah]

. Do you remember that SADO wrote her friends about how she loved wearing muu muus to college, during her first semester in Hawaii? A muu muu can cover a pregnancy quite well.

It's been a long time now - almost 3 years - of reading about Zero and his myth and snippets of truth.

I don't recall any letter from SADO about wearning muumuus. Also, I don't recall documentation or verification of her fall 1961 U of H attendance, do you have a link or quote or anything? I remember the supposed meeting with Obama Sr in Russian class but also IIRC there has never been any independent verification of that.

[Seizethecarp]

“You believe that it’s impossible for SADO, as you call her, to have had a baby in January/February 1961. Do you remember that SADO wrote her friends about how she loved wearing muu muus to college, during her first semester in Hawaii? A muu muu can cover a pregnancy quite well.”

“What makes more sense?

“That she had a baby in August in Hawaii, after inexplicably and unnecessarily having dropped out of college in January, when only a month or so pregnant, but the very next month, after giving birth in August, she was at college on the mainland with a tiny newborn baby OR

that she dropped out of college after school ended in December 1960, gave birth a month or so later, married quickly, and made arrangements to continue her college education on the mainland, in Seattle, when the baby was 7 or 8 months old?”

I try to assess each proposed birth narrative based on the quality of the claims for the evidence supporting the narrative.

I support narratives that are built around corroborated evidence in contemporaneous public documents as a starting point. I try to avoid narratives that require that public documents have been faked to allow for the narrative.

The January 1961 narrative is pegged to Toutonghi’s memory of her own child's age in Seattle with no public documentary support whatsoever. I have seen no claimed evidence that corroborates Barry or SADO or any other mystery mom and baby being in Seattle in January 1961.

Note that Fred Nerks’ narrative is based on Toutonghi babysitting for a different uncorroborated “Anna Obama” who is NOT Stanley Ann Dunham Obama!

A narrative that has SADO’s baby being babysat by Toutonghi in January 1961 in Seattle when Toutonghi’s toddler was 18 months old actually requires Barry to have been born at least several months earlier in 1960 as that baby Toutonghi sat for was not a newborn but a several months old baby, IIRC. SADO would have had to have had the baby near the beginning of the U of HI Fall semester to show up with the baby that correlates to Toutonghi’s alleged memory in January of 1961.

SADO was still finishing HS in Seattle in April 1960 and any baby born earlier than February 1961 so if Barry was her son, he would have had to have been conceived in the Seattle area, not Hawaii.

Your suggestion that SADO “inexplicably and unnecessarily having dropped out of college in January, when only a month or so pregnant” is not correct, IMO. For the August 4, 1961 birth (reported by whatever means from wherever) conception would have occurred in around early November.

IIRC, a period is missed within a month after conception along with other changes that the mother experiences meaning that the pregnancy could easily have been detected by mid December 1961 in time to trigger bi-racial baby panic (regardless of which black man was the father) and prompting SADO to drop out of School before the start of the January semester.

[little jeremiah]

But to add, at this point I’m not interested in SADO as the mother. I do not think she is, from the time line with Mary Toutonghi, the weird stench about all Seattle info and disinfo, and other stuff.

[Seizethecarp]

“Also, I don't recall documentation or verification of her fall 1961 U of H attendance, do you have a link or quote or anything? I remember the supposed meeting with Obama Sr in Russian class but also IIRC there has never been any independent verification of that.”

There is double verification of her fall 1960 (not 1961) U of HI Russian class in the state public institution university transcript records of Washington (where the HI credits show on the WA transcript) and Hawaii which both report the Fall 1960 Russian class and the WA credits.

Absent a conspiracy theory, these transcripts prove that it was SADO and not some mystery Anna Obama who was in Seattle for Fall 1961 and Spring 1962 further corroborated by the record of SADO lining in the same building with Toutonghi purportedly with a bi-racial baby that Toutonghi babysat at that time and NOT January 1961.

It has been suggested that the transcripts are just digital computer images and lack “provenance” but IIRC, since SADO is dead, any citizen can request the records directly from the universities and numerous folks reportedly have done so.

To claim that SADO was NOT at U HI requires a conspiracy theory involving university records keepers in TWO universities. SADO used the Russian credit and her WA credits for her undergraduate HI degree on the public record.

[little jeremiah]

I’m just wondering about the fall of 1960 UofH attendance. I’d like to be pointed to the evidence, since I don’t remember, it’s been almost 3 years of reading these threads. I’ve seen the evidence of the Seattle attendance, and read the various debates about it, and the UofH attendance later, but just don’t remember the evidence of the UofH attendence in 1960. I’m not denying it happened, just would like to see what the evidence is (again) since I don’t remember it. Nor do i remember about the muu muu thing.

I also would appreciate if you lay off the “conspiracy theory” thing. That’s an attempt to throw mud, and at this point, until all the facts are known, and evidence and documentation made public, there is not that much known for sure, so anyone can slam just about anything with “that’s a conspiracy theory” and it does little to nothing to further the search for the truth of just who is this person in the White House.

Any and all evidence is useful for this search, and if something turns out to be a dead end, it will be made clear in due course of time.

[Fractal Trader]

There are certainly many elements of the Stanley Ann/Barack, jr narrative which are open to interpretation. It appears that her info about the Fall 1960 UH semester can be gotten from the school directly; it can certainly be found by reference in the UW transcripts. Of all the possible uncertainties about the timeline for her, I would think that her presence at the UH in the fall of 1960 had about the least controversy relative to all other aspects of her life story. There are plenty of stories of them being contemporaneously in Hawaii and studying Russian, which is clearly a documented fact.

Certainly, it is a major undertaking to come up with the one “true” narrative of Stanley Ann and Barack, jr. However, the discussions about a second “Anna,” proposed radical changes to the birth date of Obama or some other child, and extensive reliance on the authority of “Dreams” depend on the thinnest shreds of evidence, and are almost universally uncorroborated with any known verifiable documents. To continue to pursue such lines only gives credibility to those who want to discredit the “birther” movement, at least as it is presented on Free Republic.

Lucy T’s ping list has been an invaluable source of information regarding the birth narrative. Additionally, there are many detailed sources on the Internet which also provide valuable clues for those of use trying to understand what really happened. These sources would include WND, The Post and Email, blogs from Lady Forest, Butterdezillion, and the former Hillary Clinton supporter whose name I forget. When you try to synthesize all these sources to try to come up with the most likely version of the truth, Fred Nerks’ stories have little relationship to these other sources, most of which include extensive documentary corroboration of their findings.

Snippets from “Dreams” and excerpts from news sources, combined with his eager imagination, leave us with a narrative that none of these other detailed sources would support. I am not necessarily the biggest Corsi fan, but he has not come up with anything that remotely resembles Fred Nerks’ claims.

[Seizethecarp]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=107889

SADO got an “A” in Russian per the credits she transferred to WA on her WA transcript seen at this link.

Also in this WND story Toutonghi told the following to WND directly:

“Mary Toutonghi, the babysitter for Barack Obama Jr., told WND that she babysat for Obama when he was 7-months old (around February/March 1962) and Dunham was attending night classes at the University of Washington that started around 4:30 p.m.”

The U of HI confirms Fall 1960 attendance and return to attendance in Sprint 1963 consistent with a gap for pregnancy and U of WA attendance.

http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/DunhamUnivHawaii.jpg

[Seizethecarp]

“The lighter one is supposed to be Mark’s full brother, David, who mysteriously died (no evidence) and who was constantly being mistaken for Obama, when Obama first went to Kogelo.”

The striking resemblance of Barry to Mark's younger brother David, born approximately in 1969 according to the public family narrative, is circumstantial corroborating evidence that they shared the same father, BHO Sr., and that Barry did not have a mystery father, such as FM Davis or Malcolm X.

The striking resemblance of Barry to his grandfather (the big grin picture at the beach when Barry was about three) is circumstantial evidence that SADO is Barry's mother.

This family resemblance evidence is certainly not conclusive, but certainly supports BHO Sr. and SADO as Barry's biological parents.

The Gramps and black Ho theory as father and mother of Barry is possible but not even remotely probable due to zero corroboration, IMO. Barry's resemblance to David helps refute that theory as well by making Grampa’s “big grin” chin come to Barry via his mom who has the female version of the chin.

[little jeremiah]

Thanks. At this point I’m not very interested in SADO any more, I think there is very compelling evidence that the time line in Seattle is so off, that something else may be in play here. There are many holes/anomalies and things that just do not fit, no matter how hard the puzzle pieces are jammed in. And just for the record, Mary Toutonghi’s intereview with WND was after, IIRC, her initial interview, and could very likely have been coached to change her story somewhat. The WND interview has her saying things differently than she initially said.

Let’s just say there is much murkiness, since the people who know the facts about Zero’s parentage, birth location and time, and nationality or citizenship status current and past, are definitely active and scrub articles, change stuff, and try in every way to direct the “narrative”. Of course the mother of all “direct the narrative”s is Ayer’s Dreams book.

[Brown Deer]

There are certainly many elements of the Stanley Ann/Barack, jr narrative which are open to interpretation.

Certainly, it is a major undertaking to come up with the one “true” narrative of Stanley Ann and Barack, jr.

To continue to pursue such lines only gives credibility to those who want to discredit the “birther” movement, at least as it is presented on Free Republic.

I am not necessarily the biggest Corsi fan, but he has not come up with anything that remotely resembles Fred Nerks’ claims.

Sounds like a bunch of nonsense and contradictions to me. So, you don't want the truth to be found?

[Brown Deer]

To me, the 18 month memory is a less trustworthy memory than the diaper memory.

Mothers remember birthdays! Her daughter was two years old in July of 1961. They also remember pregnancies and she was pregnant with her first son in the spring of 1962.

[little jeremiah]

A. Certainly, it is a major undertaking to come up with the one “true” narrative of Stanley Ann and Barack, jr. However, the discussions about a second “Anna,” proposed radical changes to the birth date of Obama or some other child,

B. and extensive reliance on the authority of “Dreams” depend on the thinnest shreds of evidence, and are almost universally uncorroborated with any known verifiable documents. To continue to pursue such lines only gives credibility to those who want to discredit the “birther” movement, at least as it is presented on Free Republic.

With all due respect, "A" has nothing - nada - zilch - to do with "B". At all. In fact, Fred Nerks (who you did not ping, is he now a non-entity?) has repeatedly stated that accepting anything in Dreams as a given is heading up the wrong path. And now you falsely accuse him of doing exactly what he says not to do.

It sounds to me as though you are the one trying to smear any research done by Fred Nerks or anyone else questioning the basic assumptions of Dreams as a kook and "conspiracy" wingnut.

It stinks, actually.

[Fractal Trader]

I’m not trying to smear his research. I’m just trying to indicate that he has very little corroboration for his claims and has conclusions that are radically different from the highly detailed, corroborated research of many authors available on the Internet. If we wants to make his conjectures, then he should have the same high level of proof of the other web sites out there that I have mentioned. Without detailed corroboration, his research is useless and counterproductive.

Put together a blog like Lady Forest, Butterdezillion, D’Inofrio and others have done and look at the comments that you get. Adjust your hypothesis to the research as reflected by your commenters. Compare versus documented facts, etc...

Splattering a story with swapped babies, changed birth dates and radically different chronologies across a series of widely dispersed posts is not the way to advance the state of knowledge about the Obama narrative.