Are you sure you have your cart behind your horse?
Was it a downfall of the church that led to the welfare state,
or a deliberat plan of the welfare state that made the charity of the church seem redundant (and impoverished those who would have given more to the church for charity)
???
I think you are both right.
The socialists used the power of the welfare states. (and to be fair - it has worked well in some nations like mine - more dollar millionares than any other.)
Thouggh Quix is saying that if everyone followed the teachings of Jesus there would hardly be a need for it.
Coming back to the Scandinavian states. And how “socialism” worked. It was because people were Christians...
The people needing welfare were a very low number.
Because you followed the teachings...
So helping the few that fell along the road was an easy task.
Without that Christian morality....
American capitalism will fail as surely as Nordic welfare states.
Though the latter will fall first.
My thoughts...
Certainly the evil globalists have been busy undermining both the church and the State every way they could.
Too often, power-mongers and wolves in sheep’s clothing have been busy in the church neutering and corrupting both the message and its application.
Witness this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2684511/posts