Posted on 12/27/2009 3:44:54 PM PST by Starman417
I have been a law-abiding citizen all my life. I've always played by the rules. That is about to change. The early morning passage yesterday of the Senate health care bill requires every American to purchase health insurance. I refuse. I will not abide by this bill if it is passed into law. And if the government levies a fine, I will not pay it. I've had enough.
There comes a time when a line in the sand must be drawn. I've just drawn mine. I've listened to the outright lies our politicians have spouted in order to pass this legislation, which, by the way, has nothing to do with health care and everything to do with government control.
Democrats declared this bill was deficit neutral. Not so, says the Congressional Budget Office. Alas, this wasn't reported until minutes after the bill passed the Senate
Dems say this bill will allow an additional 30 million people to be covered while not affecting prices. Helloo....this goes contrary to the very basic law of supply and demand.
I've had enough of the back door deals, the outright bribes, the lies, the rush, and the absolute arrogance of our elected officials who patronizingly tell me with a straight face that black is white and if I questions their wisdom, why I must be a loony tea-bagger who doesn't believe in the rule of gravity. Enough!!
(Excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net ...
Perhaps that’s why most of our military is out of the country? Those rounding up Americans will probably be wearing blue helmets. Not much most of us can do individually against 4AM ‘dynamic entry’ teams. A few well publicized examples would probably cause most people to comply. Those who don’t want to comply better get together to watch each others backs. You have to sleep sometime.
You are living in a country with millions of people who reside in the underground. You cannot find them and you don't even know who they are. Millions of them. Also, there are thousands of people running businesses right now who do not even report any income to any government entity and do not even tell a government entity that they are even running a business. And they are not in a Federal Prison. Getting yourself thrown in jail, is the stupid play here.
I note you didn’t respond to my earlier comment (more like a novel – my apologies). I suppose you’ve got your reasons, and that’s all good, but for the record I want to state that your comments, especially this last one, envision a history of the world where everyone ever faced with serious oppression just caved. It’s simply not true. Human nature doesn’t permit it. Things do get bad enough eventually that even ordinary people become willing to risk it all for freedom. That’s just how God made us.
In medieval times, the Waldensians hid from the Roman Church in the mountains of Switzerland, so they could freely practice their faith. In the Reformation era the Scottish Presbyterians were forced into hiding (and dying) by their sundry opponents, so they could freely practice their faith. The list goes on and on of people who would not bend the knee to false gods, be they ancient golden statues or modern socialist demagogues. I can’t tell you with certainty where that threshold is for the modern person of principle, but I can tell you with certainty that these people do exist and they will not lay down those principles for fear of injury. They have the scars to prove it.
What I want to know is what you, a professed Catholic, will do if the Senate version of healthcare passes, with it’s insistence that you *will* fund abortion, like it or not. Forget Nathan Hale. This is a Nebuchadnezzar moment. You are about to be told by your government to pay for the deliberate murder of innocent children. What will you do?
Got any hard data to back up those numbers, or are we still playing Commies-and-Wolverines here?
Well the Rino's, Dino's and Fascists Statist that tried to force Immigration Amnesty on us used some of those very arguments.How in the World could we ever find those Illegal Immigrants ? We don't have the capability to deport millions of illegals. It would be impossible. It would require a line of buses from Florida to Mexico.Yada. Yada. As far as the people running businesses underground. You will just have to take my word for that.
Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"Unless and until the Church releases me from my obligation to obey the political authortites in this country, that's what I will do.But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, 20and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." [Matthew 22:15-21]
+ + +
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. [Rom. 13:1-7]
PS - The Waldensians deserved everything they got.
Ok. So then Moses’ mom was wrong. She had no grant of authority (that I am aware of) from anyone to reject the royal Egyptian command to kill her son. Daniel likewise should have bowed to the idol, no doubt. Was it wrong then for God to provide him with a supernatural means of escape? Because it sure created the impression to a lot of later generations that rejecting unjust commandments was commendable before God. Why, even your own Augustine said an “unjust law was no law at all.”
Or perhaps the real problem is you have confused our Republic for a monarchy. Under Romans 13, we are indeed obligated to recognize the power of governmental authority to act against unrighteousness and to reward righteousness. However, in no way does Paul’s statement confer unlimited authority on government, subject only to contrary statements of the Church. The power is specific: legitimate, God-ordained authority punishes evil and rewards good. If it acts outside of that scope, what becomes of its authority? As per Augustine, it has none. What then guides us as to the good to be rewarded and the evil to be punished? Revelation when available, or the natural law when necessary, as per Aquinas.
Furthermore, our form of government is peculiar in world history. Unlike a monarchy, in a constitutional republic “We the People” are the principal and the government is our agent, not the reverse, as your application of Romans 13 incorrectly presupposes. Therefore, if our hireling government, as a whole, ceases to act within scope of its delegated powers to punish evil and reward good, we are duty bound to fire it and hire from among ourselves a replacement. If it will not peacefully accept the pink slip, that does not change our duty under the compact that formed this nation. In this country, it is we who are the sovereign and therefore we whom God will hold accountable should we fail to reward only good and punish only evil.
Sophistry.
When commanded to commit an unjust act, the duty of the Christian is to refuse to comply, not to rebel. Rebellion is the Devil’s game. The Christian response to tyranny is to boldly violate the unjust law and peacefully submit to the consequences, as our Lord and the saints did, not to take up arms against authority.
I’m pretty sure our Founding Fathers were strong Christians (Adams and Washington especially).
I cannot believe you meant to endorse genocide of the kind exacted against the Waldensians. Of that horrific event, Milton wrote:
Forget not: in thy book record their groans
Who were thy sheep, and in their ancient fold
Slain by the bloody Piedmontese, that rolled
Mother with infant down the rocks. Their moans
The vales redoubled to the hills, and they
To heaven.
If I am somehow mistaken, and it is true you really are comfortable with such terrors, then perhaps funding the carnage of abortion is not so great a stretch for you. For me, as for many others, it would kill my spirit, burdening me with a guilt I could never escape. I would hear their crying without ceasing, day and night, awake or asleep, incessant in my ears, the voice of the innocent. What would mere survival mean to me then? As Jesus said, what does it profit a man, if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul?
Our founding fathers were mostly Deists and Freemasons: men of the “enlightenment” seeking to create “a new order of the ages”.
A true Conservative has no desire for any new order of the ages. We support the order established by God.
Regardless, the fact that they won clearly displayed Divine providence. God was with them, and they won. They refused to bow to tyranny and openly fought an armed revolution against their “masters.”
What you propose is to just be reserved and indignant until the moment our throats are cut. People fail to realize the reason why Christ submitted as he did wasn’t because it wasn’t a good idea to fight tyrannical authority, but because he was doing God’s Will. Is it God’s Will for us to be enslaved by our own government? Possibly, but I doubt it.
The Waldenses were heretical terrorists whose goal was the destruction of the social order — a sort of combination of the Jim Jones cult and the Weatherman group. Their activities were in violation of secular laws. Their heresies were undermining the foundations of society. In short, they were traitors, and deserved to be rooted out and punished.
But there was no genocide of the Waldenses. The punishments were limited by the Third Lateran Council to imprisonment, disinterment of the dead, and confiscation of property, and these were meted out by the secular authorities, not the Church.
So did the Bolsheviks.
What you propose is to just be reserved and indignant until the moment our throats are cut. People fail to realize the reason why Christ submitted as he did wasn’t because it wasn’t a good idea to fight tyrannical authority, but because he was doing God’s Will. Is it God’s Will for us to be enslaved by our own government? Possibly, but I doubt it.
What I propose is that we render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar. It is only when Caesar requires us to render unto him that which belongs to God -- our adoration -- that our duty is to refuse to obey, and to submit to Caesar's judgment. That's what our Lord did. That's what St. Paul did. That's what St. Peter did. Are we any better than they were to be imprisoned, suffer, and die for the Truth?
Strawman nonsense. America is different. It has always been different, that’s what’s made it great. We’re not perfect, but we’re not like the rest of the world, and that’s why God is with us, whether some like it or not. Historically, as we try to emulate the rest of the world, our lives are made worse; when the rest of the world tries to emulate us, their lives are made better.
You can accept slavery if you like. I will not. And I certainly won’t finance abortion. The saints you refer to were attempting to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We’re attempting to live our lives out from under the thumb of our own leaders. If we are indeed in the last days, then we will not succeed in ANY rebellion of ANY kind, as we’re not meant to, but I’d rather go down fighting, regardless.
Whatever. It’s your life. I’m not trying to sell you anything. Do what you want and take the consequences like a man.
And may we each be conformed to God’s will.
Ah, so the Piedmontese Easter event of 1655 never happened, hundreds of men, women and children weren’t mercilessly killed after all, Cromwell intervened for no apparent reason, and these rag tag pacificts who rejected violence were terrorists. I’m thinking Orwell may have a job for you over at the Ministry of Truth.
Will do. In the Revolutionary War rule of thirds, I can see which third you would/will be in.
And may we each be conformed to God’s will.
Absolutely.
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