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To: joey703
I don’t think so. It was clear that after the Battle of Stalingrad, which way the war was headed.

That's what I used to think. The overwhelming historical consensus is that Stalingrad marked the point when Nazi defeat was inevitable. This consensus assumes, however, that Britain and the USA were allies in the war effort against Germany, thereby tying down German forces in Western Europe. A separate peace treaty* with Germany would have freed Hitler to move all his forces to the Eastern Front, just as the earlier pact with the Soviet Union allowed Germany to concentrate its forces on its western borders to invade Western Europe. Germany could have won a single front war against one continental-sized power. It couldn't have won a two-front war against three continental-sized powers. Note that without the US in the picture, the Soviets would have lost all Lend Lease aid, which even Khrushchev viewed as critical to the Soviet war effort.

* In fact, a separate peace treaty with Germany accompanied by British and American material sales to the Nazis (in the same way the Soviets supplied the Nazi invasion of Western Europe) would have finished the Soviets off.

14 posted on 09/06/2009 8:06:35 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always)
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To: Zhang Fei
In fact, a separate peace treaty with Germany accompanied by British and American material sales to the Nazis (in the same way the Soviets supplied the Nazi invasion of Western Europe) would have finished the Soviets off.

I just don't see that as ever having happened. In fact, I think U.S. policy has been and will always be to make sure that there will never be a continental power in Eurasia (for example, the Soviet Union unifying all of Europe).

I think the U.S. feared a Europe unified by Germany (and I believe Hitler had ideas of ridding all Poles/Slavic people and replacing them with Germans all the way to Central Asia) much more than a Soviet Union that unified Europe. Either way, the U.S. would've (and was) against a Soviet Union unifying all of Europe. And, even today, U.S. policy is to make sure that Germany remains nervous of the Soviet Union (which would guarantee that the U.S. remains the pre-eminent power in that part of the world)...

The U.S. was of course Soviet Allies, and of course, U.S. aid was very important to the Soviet beating Nazi Germany. The very same thing could be same of the U.S. with respect to the U.K. The U.S. intervened in the war at the latest possible moment (and by the grace of the Japanese Attack/U.S. embargo against Japan and, of course, Hitler's decision to declare war on the U.S.)...You have to remember that in the U.S., isolationism remained triumphant until the Japanese attack and even with FDR's manipulations of domestic opinion, the U.S. did not enter the war until the very last possible moment. Why would the U.S. sign a separate peace treaty with Germany? It was never in the interest and never will be in the interest of the United States to see a strong, powerful, and united (federal) Europe.

But anyways, let's assume that the U.S. did everything the U.S. really did except land forces at Normandy. What would've happened? Nazi Germany would've been defeated and all of Europe would be under Soviet occupation. It would've been like handing over Europe to the Soviet Union had the U.S. not invaded at Normandy. And, of course, millions and millions of more Russians would've died.

15 posted on 09/06/2009 8:40:53 PM PDT by joey703 (northxkorea.blogspot.com)
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To: Zhang Fei

This moron’s knowledge of history is laughable, AT BEST...

STALINGRAD was not the turning point in the East, it was KURSK, in July 1943, 6 months AFTER Stalingrad, followed by the Soviet Summer Offensive after it, that spelled doom for the Germans in the East, they RECOVERED from Stalingrad, but could not recover from the losses suffered at Kursk, and never regained the initiative after that.


39 posted on 09/13/2009 12:57:03 AM PDT by tcrlaf ("Hope" is the most Evil of all Evils"-Neitzsche)
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