Obama's citizenship

1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3 ^

[DavidFarrar]

I have recently been bringing this debate over Obama's U.S. citizenship over at Talking Points Memo. Needles to say, I have received some heat for my efforts. But I have received an interesting response. One that I have been unable to get around. I hope I can find some answers here.

[DavidFarrar]

I have recently been bringing this debate over Obama's U.S. citizenship over at Talking Points Memo. Needles to say, I have received some heat for my efforts. But I have received an interesting response. One that I have been unable to get around. I hope I can find some answers here.

You see, according to the Immigration and naturalization Act of 1952, the controlling legal entity at the time, Obama was a U.S. citizen simply by virtue of his mother being a U.S. citizen.

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, section 349 (a), provided:

"From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by -- (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday: ...."

Section 355 of that Act provided that:

"A person having United States nationality, who is under the age of twenty-one and whose residence is in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who hereafter loses United States nationality under section 350 or 352 of this title, shall also lose his United States nationality if such person has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, United States nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of United States nationality by the parent unless and until the person attains the age of twenty-five years without having established his residence in the United States."

1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3.

Given that Obama returned to the U.S., and established permanent residency there, long before he was either 23 or 25, this distinction is rather irrelevant.

According to what I am reading here, Obama is a U.S. citizen.

Any comments that will address this point?

ex animo davidfarrar

[hoosiermama]

Either of these freepers should be able to help you.

[DecentAmerican]

sigh..... newbie, but at least an open-minded newbie.

There is no doubt that the Usurper is a US Citizen.

that is not the issue. What is at issue is if he is a natural born citizen. And the only way that can be is if he was born on US soil.

and the only way to prove that is his ORIGINAL long form BC. he has released a short form COLB, but strangely and suspiciously, has sealed his long form.

His supporters insist that the COLB is good enough. So if there is nothing to hide, then why hide the original long form? Why pay thousands of dollars in legal fees to keep it sealed?

Given that, among other evidence, I strongly suspect that he is not a natural born citizen.

[kik5150]

Arnold Schwarzenegger is a citizen. He cannot be president.

[Nipfan]

Actually, there is plenty of doubt whether he’s a citizen at all although, as you say, that’s not the point.

If he was born overseas, his mother was too young to confer citizenship. She then married an Indonesian who, I believe, adopted Obama. There is also plenty of speculation that he received assistance as a foreign student, which is why all of his college records are sealed.

I cannot be categoric about this, but I have read in many places that his very first U.S. passport (as opposed to being included on his mother’s as a child) was when he became a Senator, which did not require production of a birth certificate or other proof of identity. His prior overseas travel was most likely done on an Indonesian passport.

So, yes, there is some doubt about his actual citizenship but the main question is how - and how quickly - can it be established that he is NOT qualified to be President under the Constitution.

[wintertime]

There is no doubt that the Usurper is a US Citizen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What evidence do you have for that?

Did he reaffirm his U.S. citizenship when he reached maturity?

[When do we get liberated?]

HOLY CRAP, YOU FOUND IT!!!!!

None of the cretins at FR have ever read the Constitution and you googled it and got the answer. Have you thought of applying for the Mensa society?

In your investigation did parse the section about the difference between Naturalized Citizens and Natural Citizens? Get at least that far before you post.

What is your DU screen name?

[chaosagent]

sigh..... newbie, but at least an open-minded newbie.

There is no doubt that the Usurper is a US Citizen.

that is not the issue. What is at issue is if he is a natural born citizen. And the only way that can be is if he was born on US soil.

---

Close, but no cigar. Obama did not have to be born on American soil to be considered Natural Born.

If both his parents were citizens, then it would not have made any difference where he was born.

However, according to the law in effect at the time, if the person in question (Obmaa) was born outside the US, and if only one parent was an American citizen (his mother), she must have lived in the US for at least 5 years since the age of 16, in other words, she had to be at least 21 years of age.

But she was 18 when Obama was born.

Plus there are all the other questions about whether he lost his citizenship when his step-father took him to Indonesia and he supposedly became an Indonesian citizen and never reclaimed his US citizenship.

And whether or not the fact that he got also got British Citizenship from his father.

And on, and on...

[vpintheak]

Take it easy FRiend. He’s been around longer than you.

[BooBoo1000]

Hey, play nice children, this board has been around for a long time partly due to the respect posters pay to other posters ideas/

[douginthearmy]

There is only one thing that truly matters in the birth certificate issue. Whether or not ANY court will hear any of the cases. Thus far, the answer has been a resounding NO. Those on the "kenyan/muslim/usurper" side need no convincing.

I think he might be hiding something, but I simply cannot believe that Hillary would have given up the presidency if there was any chance whatsoever he was born in Kenya. I have also heard that he has spent millions on lawyers fighting this, but that number seems to be randomly thrown out and without any evidence. As far as I can tell, he hasnt needed much for lawyers because no court will take the case.

The issue wont go away because some people passionately believe he is a foreigner. I am not convinced either way, but the whole issue is moot without a court case.

[Red Steel]

You see, according to the Immigration and naturalization Act of 1952, the controlling legal entity at the time, Obama was a U.S. citizen simply by virtue of his mother being a U.S. citizen.

Not Correct. You've been BS'd. The law at the time until 1986 is that the mother had to be at least 19 to pass on US citizenship to her offspring, IF the baby was born overseas. Obama mother was a minor and not 19 at the time Obama was born, therefore she could not pass on US citizenship. Obama would have to be naturalized to become a US citizen. Did that happen?

Obviously, if Obama was naturalized, you cannot be a natural born citizen. And if this was correct, it's not, being born overseas on foreign soil, Obama received US citizenship through statute. Again receiving citizenship through a law passed by Congress does NOt make a person a Natural Born Citizenship.

[ckilmer]

A detroit radio station called the Kenyan embassy after the election of Obama. After a a few minutes they get through to the ambassador of Kenya.

The ambassador of Kenya says that obama was born in Kenya and that his birth place has become a national shrine.

Listen to the recording here

The quote is around 12:35, so if you don’t have time to listen to the whole thing, you can jump ahead.
The transcript reads:

Radio Jockey: President elect Obama's birth place over in Kenya -- is that going to be a national spot where he was born

Ambassador Peter Ogego: its already an attraction. his paternal grandmother is still alive

Radio Jockey:But his birth place...they'll put up a marker there

Ambassdor Peter Ogego: It would depend on the government. Its already well known.

Here is an abridged Utube version of the the radio interview. So you can hear just the relevant parts.

It can be reasonably pointed out that the DJ was trying to entrap the Ambassador and that the Ambassador fell into his trap.
However, if you listen to the long version of the radio interview --you’ll notice he used the same strategy on two different occasions and the ambassador gently brushed him off.

First, he tried to force the ambassador to sing the Kenyan national anthem. The ambassador referred him to the kenyan website.

Second he tried to push the ambassador into saying something about maybe Kenya becoming the 51st state. Again the ambassador said that Kenya was a sovereign country. ie No.

He used the same technique on the question of Obama’s birth place. This time the ambassador did not brush him off. Rather in answer to the question as to whether Obama was born in Kenya --he says "It is well known."

Because the ambassador answered no in the two previous examples -- you can't say that the ambassdor was either a fool or ill advised.

Finally, you might ask well doesn't he know that saying Obama is born in Kenya would make trouble for Obama? The answer there is why should he be concerned? He has heard no suggestion in the mainstream media that there might be a problem there. So to say what is already well known--as he says--would be no problem.

Here is a utube video of Ambassador Peter Ogego speaking at a conference. Ambassador of Kenya H.E. Peter Ogego To verify that the voice on the radio is Ambassador Ogego-- compare the radio voice with the DJ to the voice on the Utube that goes with Ambassador Ogego. Ambassador Peter Ogego is introduced a bit after minute 18..

They are the same.


Subsequently, the Kenyan ambassador said that he meant Obama's father was born in Kenya. However, when pressed about Obama's birth place:

"I don't know," he said with a tone of irritation. "You should ask your government. I know his father is Kenyan."

However, that's not what the original transcript suggests. clear="all" /> Finally, there is a Affidavit of Bishop Ron McRae which is part of the Berg case. The Bishop says pretty much the same thing as the Ambassador.

"Additionally, it is common knowledge throughout both the Christian and Muslim communities in Kenya, that contrary to news media propaganda here in the United States, US Senator Barack Obama is a Muslim and not a Christian, and that he was born in Mombasa, Kenya and not in the State of Hawaii as falsely purported by the Obama campaign for presidency of the United States."

While you cannot impeach the ambassador's character, you can impeach McCrae's character. After all, he's just an itinerant preacher. But McCrae has been to Kenya. Still that makes two people who say that it is common knowledge in Kenya that Obama was born in Kenya.
Then of course there is a video of Obama's grandmother saying that Obama is born in Kenya
There is a case to be made that Obama mother didn't mean Obama was born in Kenya but rather that he is a "son of this village". However, witnesses insist that she said she was present at obama's birth in Kenya. If taken alone, perhaps she could well be ignored. However, her take is in keeping with others both high and low.

Again here is a pdf transcript of Kenyan National Assembly on Nov 5, 2008, the day after Obama was elected. Over and over again there are references to Obama being a "son of the soil" of Kenya and a Kenyan. On page page 3275 there is this passage:

HOUSE SHOULD ADJOURN TO DISCUSS ELECTION OF MR. BARRACK OBAMA

Ms. Odhiambo: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is not on this issue. I stand on a point of order under Standing Order No.20 to seek leave for adjournment of the House to discuss the American presidential election results.

(Applause)

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the President-elect, Mr. Obama, is a son of the soil of this country. Every other country in this continent is celebrating the Obama win. It is only proper and fitting that the country which he originates from should show the same excitement, pomp and colour.



Again. It is not the one thing. Rather it is the tide.

The American Thinker explains here why the short form that Obama released is not sufficient for Hawaii. The Obama administration could put this to rest by releasing his long form birth certificate. But he doesn't. Instead of just releasing his long form birth certificate he has paid his lawyers over 1 million dollars from campaign contributions since Sept 08 to squash the suits brought on the issue. Why bother. The Arnold would have run for president long ago and likely won if he were a "natural born" american. He's not. He's naturalized. So he can't run. And he knows it. (though there were some trial balloons sent up a couple years back about changing the law--that went nowhere.)

Like the Arnold, Obama looks to be a naturalized citizen--but maybe he's not even that. Here's a footnoted timeline of obama's life 1961-2008. Its especially helpful to look at 1961 and 2008. Of interest is this: Interesting timeline with footnotes of obama's life.

of note

On April 10, 2008 Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) introduces Senate Resolution S. Res. 511 to “recognize that John Sidney McCain is a natural born citizen.” The resolution is allegedly meant to clarify that McCain is eligible to be President even though he was born in Panama. Because McCain’s parents were both Americans and he was born in Panama because his father was stationed there while in the military, existing law already covers McCain and he is eligible to be President. McCaskill’s resolution thus serves no purpose – except that language is included to try and provide a “blanket cover” for other foreign born candidates without military backgrounds, in order to enable Obama to be eligible to be President. This is the language that Obama inserted “Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;” This Clause has no particular relevance to McCain [The language is inserted by Obama.][301,303]

301# http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/#more-3844

303 # http://watchdog.net/b/us/110/sr511

[ckilmer]

Here is Gov (commerce secretary elect)Bill Richardson saying in Spanish that Obama is an "immigrant." (So he understands understands "immigrant" issues.)The context suggests that by "immigrant" bill richardson means "illegal immigrant"



Here in plain English is the Kenyan Ambassador saying that Obama is born in Kenya.



Obama's own flacks deny that obama was born in Kenya but do acknowledge that he had a dual citizenship up until 1982

from obama's own site factcheck.org by way of fightthesmears on his dual citizenship at birth

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”
Someone will want to cache the above web page because it will be taken down eventually.
It is well established that Obama did travel to Indonesia and Pakistan in 1981. In a tape of his speech at this April 6, 2008 San Francisco Fundraiser, Obama discloses his trip to Pakistan (40:17) when he was in college. On what passport did he travel?

A last arguement for baraks people might be that of course the Kenyans would have an interest in claiming that obama was a "son of the soil" both as a matter of pride and as a matter of bucks coming their way. However, if Obama was not born in Kenya -- then why wouldn't Obama release his original long form birth certificate. Instead of just releasing his long form birth certificate he has paid his lawyers 1 million dollars from campaign contributions since Sept 08 to squash the suits brought on the issue. On top of that according to the LA Times since the election -- the Kenyans feel that Obama has gone out of his way to snub/ignore/distance-himself them. The Kenyans are putting up reasons like perhaps they are insufficiently perfected for him to notice them--but here in the USA we have seen Obama throw a number of embarrasing people from his past under the bus. Exactly What IS a Natural Born Citizen?

The thing has become a joke in washington. dJoe Biden Joked at the Gridiron Dinner in March 09.

After mentioning one of the Republican speakers for the evening, Arnold Schwarzenegger, was born in Austria and that one of the Democratic speakers, Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, was born in Canada, Biden chortled: "Folks, this is going to be Lou Dobbs' worst nightmare. "

From there, Biden transitioned to the birth certificate controversy.

Les Kinsolving asked the Presidential Press Secretary Gibbs to release the long form birth certificate. The press secretary suggested mockingly that the copy of the short form birth certificate supplied online is Obama's long form birth certificate. Not so. See the press conference out take here.

The White House 'dialogue' site has to be scrubbed regularly because of long form birth certificate eligibility posts. Rush Limbaugh joked several times on his radio show on 6/10/09: "What do God and Obama have in commen? (Answer) Neither have birth certificates."

[Red Steel]

Slight clarification for my post: "And if this was correct, it's not, being born overseas on foreign soil, Obama received US citizenship through statute."

=

And if this was correct [what you cited], it's not, being born overseas on foreign soil,And if this was correct, it's not, being born overseas on foreign soil, Obama received US citizenship through statute.

[BuckeyeTexan]

“Needles to say”

A new FreeRepublic classic?

;-p

[DavidFarrar]

Yes,

I am thinking along those lines as well. To that end, I don't believe Obama actually has a (long-form) birth certificate. I have noticed that the Hawaiians health officials use the term “birth certificate” and certificate of live birth” interchangeably. I believe they are simply holding Obama’s original COLB.

But I have actually started studying the “natural born” issue far more closely and really don't plan to come back to his U.S. citizenship issue unless someone can show me something dispositive as it relates to the IANA of 1952.

[DavidFarrar]

You know I, too, have often heard something long those lines, but I have never been able to find in legal basis for that opinion.

Do you have any?

ex animo
davidfarrar

[DavidFarrar]

Well, according to the Immigration and naturalization Act of 1952, all he has to do is establish U.S. residence before the age of 25. I don’t think there is any doubt he did that.

Is there?

ex animo
davidfarrar

[DavidFarrar]

Yes, I have also heard this scenario. But, again, I cannot find any legal foundation for such a claim.

Do you have any?

ex animo
davidfarrar