Who Do You Think Won The NJ101.5 GOP Gubernatorial Debate?

micropoll.com ^ | 05/25/09 | Dan Alexander

[adc]

Check out the MicroPoll link: http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpresult/501693-169959

With 267 participants, Lonegan leads 62% to Christie's 22% and Merkt's 16%! Eight States Favoring Lonegan, vs. only PA favoring Christie (but with only 40% of the total vote!) and MD favoring Merkt. NJ favoring Lonegan with 62% of the poll vote; NY with 63% (despite Giuliani), other 6 states (AZ, IL, GA, NC, SC, and VA) each give Steve 100% of their votes!

[WilliamPatrick]

There is nothing wrong with a progressive income tax. The problem is that it has been made too progressive and has been used to soak the rich. The rich have a greater stake in our society. They control more assets and they benefit more from their position of wealth. Those assets are protected by government through law enforcement. This concept applies to all sorts of government services where the wealthy receive the greatest benefit.Therefore they should pay more than the little guy. If Lonegan changed his plan to give a break to the poor folks instead of just the rich then I would not have a problem with his plan.Lonegan also wants no more property tax rebates which is the only form of property tax relief available to us.

[ak267]

I just love this. Each GOP faction beats each other to a pulp, then the victor tries to consolidate his base by (a) being kissy face to woo the others back or (b) thumps the desk with a shoe saying, “Hey, it’s either me of the Donkey...where else you gonna go to?”

Politics: it’s like voting for prom royalty except this royalty can tax you.

[adc]

The idea here is to reduce property taxes by creating economic growth.

For the tax-paying majority.

A 15-20 percent reduction in property taxes for most NJ municipalities.

You must be confusing Lonegan with Christie. Christie’s promise to to cut the income tax by some unspecified amount means he would be cutting the Property-Tax Relief Fund by that same amount. And if he cuts the Property-Tax Relief Fund, he will have less money for property-tax relief, not more.

Christie has also promised to increase property-tax rebates, which come from the same fund he just promised to cut.

Corzine’s biggest fear is Lonegan. The distinction between the two is too obvious to fail.

[WilliamPatrick]

The rebate plan is far from perfect. The original intent of the income tax was for property tax relief but the politicians screwed things up and used the funds for other purposes.We have high taxes in New jersey because of the excessive costs for education. Every year towns and cities in New Jersey approve their school budgets which represent the greatest proportion of our property tax bills. Yet we all scream as if we had no control of the issue. But in fact we do because the people are too complacent about reducing the size of government and the size of the educational monopoly. I resent your calling me a Marxist because you disagree with me. Name calling is inappropriate.

[Go Gordon]

The rich have a greater stake in our society. They control more assets and they benefit more from their position of wealth. Those assets are protected by government through law enforcement. This concept applies to all sorts of government services where the wealthy receive the greatest benefit.

Here is where we differ. The "wealthy" typically are the ones that played by the rules, worked hard, invested or built businesses and do not rely on unemployment benefits, disability, welfare, WIC, and all the other handouts. Its the people that didn't stay in school and get educated/trained, the drink/drug/party crowd that fail to hold down a job long enough to learn and climb the company ladder, the single moms that couldn't keep their legs together long enough to get married first (which in NJ is a huge expense for child care, adult schooling etc.), that are ruining it for the vast majority of the people that played by the rules and do not drain societies coffers.

Until people start taking the under-performing part of society to task, it will continue to be acceptable to be a drag on society, sucking at the teat of government while politicians confiscate money from the productive members of society. Sound harsh? You bet, but the vast majority of our poor are in that position because they choose to be. Personally, I'm sick of them, and I'm sick of having over half my paycheck confiscated before I even get to pay sales taxes, gasoline taxes, sin taxes, etc.

Therefore they should pay more than the little guy. If Lonegan changed his plan to give a break to the poor folks instead of just the rich then I would not have a problem with his plan.

We just simply disagree. The "little guy" would be the little guy in the vast majority of situations if they played the game the right way. Let them pay the consequences - don't reward their bad behavior. Set an example for generations to come.

[adc]

Corzine is one of the most detested Governors in the country.

72% of New Jerseyans say the state is generally on the wrong track.
Monmouth University/Gannett New Jersey poll

The time is right for a overwhelming conservative win here.

Conservative as in Lonegan.

[Go Gordon]

I resent your calling me a Marxist because you disagree with me. Name calling is inappropriate.

I'm sorry you interpreted my comments that way. I didn't call you a marxist. If you re-read my post, I said you had marxist tendencies. You know, from those based on ability - to those based on need. You seem to be advocating that because people are wealthier, they should shoulder the burder for those that are not. I couldn't agree more. We need to send a message to generations to come, that there will be a minimum contribution to the government that one must pay regardless of income, because we aren't going to play "soak the rich". The rich are the ones creating jobs.

[adc]

Go Gordon

[adc]

Well said.

[WilliamPatrick]

You will never convince me that raising taxes on an individual who makes $23,000 and on couples who make $67,000 while those making a $500,000 salary get a $14,000 tax break is fair in any sense of the word.Many of the so called rich got rich because quite frankly they got lucky or were in the right place at the right time. They may have had a superior education or were born to upper middle class or wealthy families. Many of the lower income folks were born to poverty and did not have the advantage of a good education or were raised in a culture that did not reward achievement.I am talking about people who are called the working poor NOT those on welfare and NOT those laggards in society. These folks need a break as much as the rich guys.NO way to Lonegan.

[JimRed]

New jersey would be better off if its voters though more like middle America than like the Rotten Apple.

Unfortunately, a large portion of our population originated (up to a few generations back) in the "Rotten Apple" and environs. They brought their misguided voting habits with them...

[adc]

“Many of the so called rich got rich because quite frankly they got lucky or were in the right place at the right time”

This way of thinking is what keeps people down. Which is why we are under Democratic control. Anything is possible in this greatest of nations, and those who are enterprising, moral and positive are the ones who succeed. It may take them longer, but they can, have, and will succeed.

[WilliamPatrick]

Many do succeed and lifting themselves from poverty but the number who do is small.You can be moral, enterprising and positive and still fail.For the most part our position in life is more likely determined by birth and the culture in which we experience in our youthful years. The barriers and hurdles of life are different for all of us. We should be striving to provide an equal opportuntiy to everyone to succeed. It can be a role of government to level the playing field. That is why America has the greatest level of social mobility of any country in the world. But we need to keep getting better.

[pookie18]

Just got a pro-Lonegan robocall from Pat Boone...

Have gotten pro-Christie calls from Rudy, Forbes, Bret Schundler...

[the long march]

From your mouth to God’s ear

[adc]

“You can be moral, enterprising and positive and still fail”

Yes, you can. But nowhere in our Constitution does it say that we are all guaranteed to succeed.The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are made real by individuals themselves, not government programs. There are faith-based organizations, charities and of course the generosity of so many millions of Americans who reach out to others who are in need. We are striving to provide equal opportunity every day in this great country. But we do not need the government directing us in how to do it.

[adc]

Always liked Pat Boone. State Fair was the first movie I saw in NYC as a kid. Glad he’s on board.

[pookie18]

April Love brings May Endorsements...

[ZULU]

Christie is a typical machine politician. He has lined up all the usual suspects, including JulieAnnie and Tom Kean to support him. They are hardly conservatives.

His flat tax plan is similar to what Forbes proposed when he was running for President in a primary a while ago. A flat tax plan is one of the best solutions to the state’s and the Nation’s fiscal woes. I worked for IRS, I KNOW. A flat tax would END the kind of fiscal shields the very affluent can afford to sequester their assets from taxation. It would reduce the size of the tax gathering buearocracy. It would end the gravy train for well-paid tax attorneys and accountants.

Forbes, like Christie and the usual cast of characters in New Jersey may be FISCAL conservatives - like Lonegan is, but they are ALSO social Liberals. Lonegan is a social conservative.

Christie and Lonegan both have problems. Mainly they are Republicans in a state whose demographics over the years have been altered by an influx of liberal Democrat refugees from New York City, fleeing the social and economic mess they created with their voting patterns in the Big Apple. Now they have brought that same voting pattern and that same mess to New Jersey.

Christie has some skeletons in his closet which Lonegan has superficially aluded to. We can be sure the Dems will go into them in depth in the event he is nominated. They will make an issue or try to make one of Lonegan’s social positions if he is nominated.

In all probability the idiot Corzine will try to get Corry Booker, the popular black mayor of Newark to run as his Lieutenant Governor. If he does, he will get all the minority votes in Hudson, CAmden, Essex, Middlesex, Mercer, and Passaic Counties and wrap up the election.

My guess is regardless of who wins the primary, Corzine will use the people who suck the system to get re-elected at the expense of the people who feed the system.

Its just basic math and the polling reflects it. The people who work and pay taxes in New Jersey are probably outnumbered by people on the public dole in one form or another.

[ZULU]

They are like spoiled children who messed their beds and go off because they can’t stand the stink and then mess up somebody else’s.