Liberals Are Leading America Into Fascism

Start Thinking Right ^ | April 3, 2009 | Michael Eden

[Welcome2thejungle]

As far as I can possibly tell, the two main love interests in Hitler’s life were his niece Geli Rabaul, and after her suicide(?), Eva Braun.

[Eva]

My experience was just the opposite. I came to study post modern thought only recently, but I had identified the third way world government as fascism, back during the Clinton administration.

I never even looked into post modern thought until the Duke Lacrosse case brought post modernism into the news.

[Luke21]

“The only question becomes, “Who will American fascism be intolerant of?””

I have a pretty good idea.

[PeterPrinciple]

First of all, socialism, communism and fascism are kissing cousins, intimately related to one another.

---

I think the above is a true statement. The one common factor is 100% governemtn control!

[Michael Eden]

Obviously, you're right about the SA. But the SA thugs p쑰primarily went to and broke up the opposition's rallies. Hitler HIMSELF obviously had his own rallies. In addition to attacking his rivals, he had to establish his own base - and the backbone of that base was working men. Hitler most certainly DID reach out to the working man who had been previously attracted to communism, arguing that under the Marxist class system "workingmen have no country." I'm looking at page 70 of Liberal Fascism, in which Goldberg interacts with Shirer. Shirer says the Nazis aimed first to "destroy the left" before they went after the traditional right. And Goldberg says the reason for the this was that "the Nazis could much more easily defeat opponents on the left because they appealed to the same social base, used the same langugage, and thought in the same categories." Goldberg says on page 72, "In short, the battle between the Nazis and the communists was a case of two dogs fighting for the same bone."

[Michael Eden]

Obviously, you're right about the SA. But the SA thugs p쑰primarily went to and broke up the opposition's rallies. Hitler HIMSELF obviously had his own rallies. In addition to attacking his rivals, he had to establish his own base - and the backbone of that base was working men. Hitler most certainly DID reach out to the working man who had been previously attracted to communism, arguing that under the Marxist class system "workingmen have no country." I'm looking at page 70 of Liberal Fascism, in which Goldberg interacts with Shirer. Shirer says the Nazis aimed first to "destroy the left" before they went after the traditional right. And Goldberg says the reason for the this was that "the Nazis could much more easily defeat opponents on the left because they appealed to the same social base, used the same langugage, and thought in the same categories." Goldberg says on page 72, "In short, the battle between the Nazis and the communists was a case of two dogs fighting for the same bone."

[SonOfDarkSkies]

Yes, those are the only two love interests noted. However, there were minor dalliances mentioned by Shirer and others.

Here's what Shirer has to say on this matter...

"Contrary to the general opinion, he liked he company of women, especially if they were beautiful. He returns to the subject time and again in his table talk at Supreme Headquarters during the war. "What lovely women there are in the world!" he exclaims to his cronies on the night of January 25-26, 1942...

Heiden has recounted some of his romantic yearnings of the early days: for a Jenny Haug...for the tall and stately Erna Hangstaengl, sister of Putzi; for Winifred Wagner, daughter-in-law of Richard Wagner.

Shirer, Rise and Fall..., p.131

[SonOfDarkSkies]

"In short, the battle between the Nazis and the communists was a case of two dogs fighting for the same bone."

Germany at that time was a wild mishmash of parties all fighting for votes. To ignore any large constituency was simply out of the question if the goal was victory. The workers were important, but they were merely a small piece of a much larger puzzle.

The pillars of Hitler's strength came from his alliances with the Military and Industrial establishment.

[Vaduz]

Problem:More and more, we are seeing our country moved not just toward European socialism.
Cure?

[Welcome2thejungle]

A few years ago, I saw a German made movie, Down Fall, about Hitler’s final days in the Bunker. It was positively one of the most realistic portrayals of Hitler and his entourage during the final days of the Reich in Berlin. And, yes, Hitler did seem to prefer the company of his young female attendants, particularly his personal secretary, Traudl Jung, from whose viewpoint the story is told. In fact, Down Fall, is based upon Traudl Jung’s recollections and she passed away just several years ago. Since Fraulein Jung spent just about every day with Hitler from 1942 until his suicide in the Fuehrerbunker, I think her eyewitness account of the Hitler’s final days was quite accurate. If you don’t mind seeing a foreign language film with English subtitles, go rent Down Fall.

[SonOfDarkSkies]

I actually enjoy foreign films with subtitles.;-)

I'll try to locate it. Thx!

[Michael Eden]

As to your point that Roehm’s homosexuality wasn’t the main reason behind the Night of the Long Knives, I wouldn’t disagree. I was merely citing something I saw on the History Channel. They clearly established that the SA was filled with homosexuality; the other stuff was posed as possible theories (including the idea that Hitler had himself participated in homosexuality).

Most of what you’re saying strikes me as a solid understanding of history.

But I would submit (to clarify, if nothing else) that Hitler basically seized power, and THEN the German industrialists came to him versus the idea that they helped him get to power.

It is important to realize that Marxist scholarship - which influenced MANY American academics - went to great lengths to demonize the Nazis and fascism as being the polar opposite of communism. And a lot of writings tried to support that notion, even though it is demonstrably NOT the case.

One quote helps show how misguided this project was:

Patrick Leigh Fermor, a young Briton traveling in Germany... met some of these men in a Rhineland workers’ pub, still wearing their night shift overalls. One of his new drinking buddies offered to let Fermor crash at his house for the night...[and Fermor] found “a shrine to Hitleriana.”

Quote: “The walls were covered with flags, photographs, posters, slogans and emblems. His SA uniforms hung neatly ironed on a hanger... When I said that it must be rather claustrophobic with all that stuff on the walls, he laughed and sat down on the bed, and said: Mensch! You should hve seen it last year! You would have laughed! Then it was all red flags, stars, hammers, sickles, pictures of Lenin and Stalin and Workers of the World Unite!... Then, suddenly when Hitler came to power, I understood it was all nonsense and lies. I realized Adolf was the man for me. All of a sudden!” He snapped his fingers in the air. “And here I am!”... Had a lot of people done the same, then? “Millions! I tell you, I was astonished how easily they all changed sides!” (from Burleigh, Third Reich, pp. 132-33, as cited in Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, p 72)

[Michael Eden]

I now understand that you are one of those people who raises a trivial point, and then fights to the death to maintain it.

If you want to make a mountain of a molehill, fine. If you want to reject any authority I cite as somehow being inadequate, fine. I frankly don’t give a damn any more.

[Petronski]

I now understand that you are one of those people who misunderstand the meaning of a term, proceed to misuse it, and then insolently protest correction of the error.

I haven’t rejected “any authority” you cite, simply that one on this point. They don’t seem to be very diligent in their understanding of the N.S.A.D.P. [sic], but feel free to cite them if you wish.

[SonOfDarkSkies]

Is the film you mention the one with Bruno Ganz as Hitler--Der Untergang (The Downfall)?

If so, I have seen it and it is great!

BTW, it is available on youtube in 15 parts. See if this is a link to the film you saw...Der Untergang

[Michael Eden]

The pillars of Hitler’s strength came from his alliances with the Military and Industrial establishment.
- - - - - -

You are essentially viewing Hitler as being “right wing” rather than as what Goldberg describes as the “right wing of the far left.”

Let me hit you with another quote, from Nazi ideologist Gregor Strasser:
“We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!” (Roger Griffen, ed., Fascism, 1995, p. 123).

The Nazi Platform:
Point 12: ... we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

Point 13: We demand the nationalization of all asociated industries

Point 14: We demand a division of profits of heavy industries

Point 15: We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

Does this sound like the system the industrialists wanted? Were the capitalists in all actually profound anti-capitalists? Did they really want to have their assets nationalized? Did they want their profits seized?

It’s kind of like Obama. Did all the major corporations support him and put their weight behind him, or did they simply begin to fall in line after he won?

[Michael Eden]

The pillars of Hitler’s strength came from his alliances with the Military and Industrial establishment.
- - - - - -

You are essentially viewing Hitler as being “right wing” rather than as what Goldberg describes as the “right wing of the far left.”

Let me hit you with another quote, from Nazi ideologist Gregor Strasser:
“We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and their performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!” (Roger Griffen, ed., Fascism, 1995, p. 123).

The Nazi Platform:
Point 12: ... we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

Point 13: We demand the nationalization of all asociated industries

Point 14: We demand a division of profits of heavy industries

Point 15: We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

Does this sound like the system the industrialists wanted? Were the capitalists in all actually profound anti-capitalists? Did they really want to have their assets nationalized? Did they want their profits seized?

It’s kind of like Obama. Did all the major corporations support him and put their weight behind him, or did they simply begin to fall in line after he won?

[Michael Eden]

Sorry for the duplicate. My browser isn’t working very well today.

[SonOfDarkSkies]

I suggest you read Shirer or the authoritative works of biographers like Toland, Bullock, and Kershaw for some meaty detail of the beginnings of Party. I like Goldberg but he is not a recognized authority on Hitler and the Nazi Party.

The Party was socialist as founded by Drexler and envisioned by Strasser. But the nascent party of Drexler was tiny (40 people or so). Despite the intentions of the founders and early members, Hitler seized power (Strasser was killed on his orders) and reformulated the Party in his own image.

There is no doubt that the original German Workers Party, the National Socialist German Workers Party or the Nazi Party were socialist, but its origins are irrelevant once Hitler seized control of it.

[Welcome2thejungle]

Yes, that’s the one. Bruno Ganz gave a remarkable, dramatic, and I think quite accurate portrayal of Hitler. No Hollyweird fluff here. This was the real deal as seen through the eyes of Hitler’s young secretary. I thought it was quite accurate.