Posted on 01/27/2009 9:11:17 AM PST by pobeda1945
At 9:20 on a misty morning the signal came. As the men moved out, they saw silhouetted the massive St. Isaac's Cathedral, the battered Admiralty, the grey ships on the Neva. On the broad, cold Nevski Prospect the passers-by guessed: the hour was near. Then all of Leningrad listened breathlessly to the music of battle. Like moles the Germans had burrowed deep into the alien earth; now thousands of tons of explosives dug them out.
Victory's Pattern. The Russians struck from two points at once. One column drove south from the city. Another pushed out from the tiny beachhead at Oranienbaum, 25 miles from Leningrad. Before both columns a broom of TNT swept a clear path. By the fourth day, the enemy's defenses had been breached, his men put to flight. Then the two wedges became iron jaws, crushing the thin German salient still left between them.
By the eighth day, Red units had taken a railroad to Moscow, were headed for the second. In the Pulkovo Hills and south Oranienbaum, the Germans fought their hardest: their trenches were deep, mine fields vast, artillery plentiful.
Now little was left of these defenses, and the snowy road across the hills was blotched with dark, ragged craters.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
Having read a few books on Stalingrad I am amazed at what those men did on both sides.
Or in Stalin’s case have enough fodder to spend so the other guy is worn down. Plus, if you shoot your own troops as they try to fall back that keeps them engaged.
Not forgetting that Stalin saw to it that the Russian heroes of this multi-year seige were shot. For doing a good job.
Can’t have too much independence about.
Can you be a bit more specific? Who exactly was shot?
Can you be a bit more specific? Who exactly was shot?
Vlasov. He was captured in ‘42 trying to relieve Leningrad with inadequate forces because “Great Stalin” ordered it. In ‘44 he formed an Army of Russian POWs to fight with the Germans against the Soviets. Mostly a figurehead.
Turned on the Germans during the battle for , I believe, Prague. Did it to spare the city [and help himself and his men]. Helped Prague, didn’t help them. Most were executed. Many sent to the Gulag [along with the ‘Hiwis’ and various formations the Germans had raised independently: Ukrainian, Tartar, Cossack].
But then again, most German held Soviet POWs were sent to the Gulag, since Stalin had decreed them traitors for being captured during the war. [He allowed his oldest son, Jacob, to die in German hands rather than exchange him for a German POW].
I was AFK - thanks for taking that one!
The particular piece of Stalinicide I was referring to (there were so many of course) was known the “Leningrad Affair”
In 1949, on Stalin’s 70th birthday, most of the Leningrad party organisation, including their parents, spouses and children, were secretly arrested.
Believing that Leningrad’s experience of independence during the German siege was a threat, Stalin forced the city leaders to confess to treason. After a quick trial they were shot.
This is how merit is rewarded under Glorious Socialism!
The Germans should have won in Russia....
"The Germans should have won in Russia...."Killed a couple of more million of Jews and Slavs, eh?
No, actually, I think saved a number of them, compared to what Stalin did...
“The Germans should have won in Russia....”
Oh,really??
Buddy, think a little about Churchill’s quote “If Soviets wouldn’t stand, then NOBODY wouldn’t”.
Think about it. And say “Thank you!” to 27 millions of Soviet people. Dead people.
This post contains NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts. Only facts to think.
At least it would have saved a number of people compared to Stalin...
No way.
The Nazi planned to exterminate every Jew and also ethnically cleanse large areas of Ukraine / Russia / Belarus of Slavic population, and repopulate them with German settlers.
Why don’t you read up on the treatment of local populations in the occupied Ukraine, Russia and Belarus by the Germans? They regarded the native people as subhuman. If they hadn’t treated them this way, they might as well have won.
In the long term Russian odds of survival as a people would have been much worse than under Stalin. Even the Ukrainian nationalists, like Bandera, who initially welcomed Germans as liberators, towards the end of the war they fought against both Germands and Soviets, because of the way the Germans treated Ukrainians.
And the Russian Jews endured the reign of Stalin, even the openly antisemitic last 5 years of his regime, I’m not so sure if they could have endured the German domination of Europe west of the Ural mountains.
My own family was touched by the war in many ways. The Germans exterminated my grandmother’s brother’s family, including a 9 months old baby.
So, no way, no how.
You said — “My own family was touched by the war in many ways. The Germans exterminated my grandmother’s brother’s family, including a 9 months old baby.”
That’s something very personal in that the war touched your family in that way. I don’t wish that kind of suffering upon anyone’s family.
What I’m saying is that Stalin and Hitler are both in the same category. I think Stalin killed a whole lot more people than Hitler did (even though Hitler made a particular choice regarding the Jews).
I would just as soon see both of them go, as one of them be defeated. And that’s the problem with war, in that one can make an ally of a *greater killer* than the one they fight against. I think Stalin was the greater killer...
And in saying that I wish Hitler had defeated them, I would have hoped that Hitler would have caught Stalin and executed him, saving a lot of people’s lives “down the road”.
I still think that Hitler would have been defeated, anyway, even if he had managed to get a hold of Stalin and execute him...
Star Traveler, you write: Stalin and Hitler are both in the same category.
Do you know what “Lebensraum”, “Untermensch” and Generalplan “Ost” are?
Hitler killed so “small” number of people just because Red Army was in Berlin at 9.05.45 and Hitler didn’t had much time and possibility to waste more.
“And in saying that I wish Hitler had defeated them, I would have hoped that Hitler would have caught Stalin and executed him, saving a lot of people’s lives “down the road”.”
Do you really think that it was SO BAD in Soviet Union,and Stalin’s murder would solve the problem??
1.suffering people in poor Russia, waiting somebody to come and kill Stalin.Ok, it’s good.
2.Hitler comes in Russia to save russians from bad Stalin.ok, it makes sense too.
3.Russians begin to fight under command of BAD Stalin AGAINST invading german forces. Why???
btw, have you seen a picture, made by germans:”Die Russe muss sterben, damit wir leben.” (Russians must die, so we could live) what do you think about it?
Where are you from?
I can’t personally know the numbers that Stalin killed, but I do know that people discuss numbers ranging from anywhere on the low side of 20 million to a high of 100 million.
How many is it said that Hitler killed?
I just gotta say that I think Stalin is a greater accomplished mass murderer than Hitler was...
Originally I am from Kiev, Ukraine.
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