By the way, this little gem of a response from you deserves a closer scrutiny, I'd say. I notice you not only suggest I'm not truthful, but also that I "attack" and "bully" people. Well...
First, again on the subject of truthfulness -- if I've said anything you believe untruthful, by all means challenge me support it. I think I've been careful to distinguish between facts and my opinions. Facts I can reference, opinions I can explain why.
But look YHAOS, you have to acknowledge one basic fact of this entire "debate," and that is what it's all about. Our Creationists / IDer's core argument is that science itself is lying to us about evolution. Not just that science is mistaken, but that it's actively suppressing "alternate views," in the defense of false evolutionary theories.
More than that, as the introduction to this whole thread demonstrates, ID Creationists argue that science in general and evolution specifically are downright evil, as demonstrated by various quotes and arguments!
What I'm saying is, it's obvious to me that SOMEBODY is lying here, and I don't think it's science, and I've tried to explain why. Now, if you consider that an "attack" and "propagandizing bully," well, then I'm sorry. But if anti-evolutionists start off calling someone else a liar, then why would they NOT expect to be called liars in return?
Finally, please note that almost every post I've made here was in response to someone else's post addressed to me. Obviously, I enjoy these exchanges, or I'd not continue with them. And, I have to assume that people sending posts to me feel the same way about it. Do you disagree?
So you’ve opted for another bite at the apple?
”. . . if I've said anything you believe untruthful, by all means challenge me support it.”
Now don’t be putting words in my mouth. I intimated that, by your own standard of judgment, you were not being truthful. Apparently you do not apply the same standards to yourself that you apply to others, so now you want to wiggle out.
”I think I've been careful to distinguish between facts and my opinions. Facts I can reference, opinions I can explain why.”
You’ve been careful to identify as factual those scientist’s understandings of science that agree with your opinion and to dismiss as mere opinion the concepts of science as applied by Dawkins, Weinberg, Provine, Pinker, Gould, Sanger, Tooley, Monod, Lewontin, Sagan, Hauser, Stenger, et al. Remarkably, you (a self-proclaimed rank scientific amateur) seem to regard your grasp of science to be superior to many of the most accomplished and distinguished scientists in the world. Explain that glaring discrepancy if you can.
”Our Creationists / IDer's core argument is that science itself is lying to us about evolution.”
Given the chasm existing between what scientists say and what they do and their inability to agree even among themselves exactly how their discipline should be described and defined, is it any wonder that they leave confusion in their wake? You certainly haven’t exercised any great care in familiarizing yourself with how scientists characterize their own discipline.
”Not just that science is mistaken, but that it's actively suppressing "alternate views," in the defense of false evolutionary theories.”
Well, is it (suppressing “alternate views”)? Have you discussed the data and the logic? Or, have you merely cried “liar!” and galloped on down the pike?
”. . . if anti-evolutionists start off calling someone else a liar, then why would they NOT expect to be called liars in return?”
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot. There’s plenty of that going around. But who started it is a complicated matter that I don’t think either you or I are ever going to adequately explain or resolve.
”Finally, please note that almost every post I've made here was in response to someone else's post addressed to me.”
Sure. You were minding your own business when all those messages came flying over the transom from people you had never heard of. But, you enjoyed them anyway.
”Obviously, I enjoy these exchanges, or I'd not continue with them. And, I have to assume that people sending posts to me feel the same way about it. Do you disagree?”
I can’t explain people’s motivations. I can’t say I always enjoy these exchanges. I’ve learned a lot.