Sorry if I misunderstood. I thought I was "debating" a Creationist / ID'er, whose purpose in life is to get "Creationism" by some other name taught in public science classes.
That is, after all, what this whole argument is about. Otherwise, NO ONE would even care what you believe about your religion or science. And you can certainly teach your kids whatever you like about it in your home school, or religious school or private school -- when it's a matter of personal choice, then believe whatever you want, for crying out loud.
And, I'm certainly NOT going to attempt arguing YOU out of your "Young Earth Creationism," (or whatever you call it). My ONLY point is: you cannot teach that in PUBLIC schools under the name of science. Yes, you could teach it in classes on philosophy, or religion, or history or even "cultural studies," etc. But it's not science, and you can't pretend it is.
Now, if it turns out that we agree on these points, then there really is no "debate" going on here, I'd say. And I'd also apologize for any misunderstanding. And we should also apologize to Free Republic for taking up so much of their computer file space with our ardent "agreement." ;-)
Hey BroJoe....
I hadn’t been on in a while, I see where others have joined the fray.
I’ve included them on this post so I can clarify a few things.
1. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior
2. As noted earlier by YHAOS, if Genesis isn’t true and Adam didn’t sin, then I don’t need a savior.
3. Based on 1 & 2 you know then that I believe the Book of Genesis to be an accurate historical account written under Divine Inspiration.
4. I came late to the party on this, I didn’t accept Christ until 7 years ago at age 51. The last (approximately) 4 years of my life have been devoted to understanding this whole debate better and I’ve come to a lot of very strong conclusions.
Having said that let me respond to some of what you’ve proclaimed:
****Sorry if I misunderstood. I thought I was “debating” a Creationist / ID’er, whose purpose in life is to get “Creationism” by some other name taught in public science classes.****
You are debating a Creationist. I don’t want it taught in public schools because it is my belief that they will not do it correctly or with much conviction.
I believe the theory of evolution is a farce. It is not science even though it masquerades as such. It is not provable by the scientific method and is therefore not science and incidentally...Irradiating a bunch of fruit flies in a laboratory in order to create “new species” (remember that men decide what is and is not a new species) is not macroevolution....they, in the end, are still fruit flies.
The Theory of Evolution was widely accepted precisely because it was a way to remove God from the equation. He told us about that in Romans 1. If there’s no God, then there’s no accountability....and who wants to be accountable?
I ignored God (at my peril) for 51 years. I won’t do that anymore.
The argument that you have made throughout this long-running debate we’ve got (other then the one about me being a liar) is that science deals with the natural world.
I’ve said I’m ok with that, others have eloquently pointed out that this is an arbitrary definition and I agree, the root of the word science is knowledge....but I’m still fine with it. The problem, as I’ve stated, is that science does not, as you claim, admit it when the answer to a problem may not lie in the natural/physical realm.
More and more scientists are looking at the theory and saying that it is built on presuppositions and pre-conceived notions that cannot be validated anywhere except in their own worldview.
Here it is in a nutshell:
Teach the theory in science class if you want but have the courtesy to do this......
Teach the problems with the theory (believe me when I say that these are plentiful and God doesn’t even need to be mentioned) and admit that, under the current constraints of science, it’s the best you can come up with.
That used to be what was known as teaching critical thinking...you know, teaching everything and letting the students process the information and come to their own conclusions.
I’ll end this with two quotes. This first one is from a famous evolutionist:
“A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question.”
Charles Darwin in the Introduction to Origin of the Species.
“There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe them”
George Orwell