BroJoeK: "who has published ANY major anti-evolution work in ANY recognized peer-reviewed scientific journal. None, zero, zip, nada.***
schaef21: "Scientists who believe in ID and write papers on ID can’t get them published. Go see the documentary Expelled” and you’ll see why. People get fired for going against the scientific orthodoxy...."
Here's an example why I say you are being dishonest and disingenuous with us.
You begin by suggesting that these are actual scientists, working at major universities in fields somehow related to evolution, who are only SCIENTIFICALLY skeptical of evolution. Reading their statement, a normal person might even suppose they are all applying for JOBS in scientific research departments!
But in the end, you let slip out the real truth, which is that these are actually religiously motivated people who want to insert the UNSCIENTIFIC idea of INTELLIGENT DESIGN in public science classes.
Sorry, but I don't think there's ANY way you can do it honestly. Creationism or Intelligent Design, whatever you want to call it, is a religious or philosophical idea without ANY supporting physical evidence. It should CERTAINLY be taught in philosophy & religion classes. But it should not be allowed to masquerade as science.
Yes, I understand your counter-argument: that science itself is dishonest and disingenuous, in not permitting research or publications in ID related subjects. But if you are going to run around calling all of science "liars," should you not expect to receive similar words in response?
Now, finally I'm going to tell you a secret, but it's just between you and me -- don't tell anybody else. Listen carefully: do you want to correct science? Do you want to defeat science, take them over, make them listen to you? OK, here's how you do it... shhhhhhhhhhh.... don't tell.
You begin with the seven magic words: "let me help you solve that problem." When you can solve science's problems for them, they will pay some attention to you. But as long as you're just throwing rocks at them, all you'll get is rocks in return (crack open the rock, look for a fossil...)
I’m growing really weary of this, BroJoe. There are learned men and women of science who disagree with the current scientific paradigm....why do you have such difficulty with that?
A couple of final rebuttals:
****You begin by suggesting that these are actual scientists, working at major universities in fields somehow related to evolution, who are only SCIENTIFICALLY skeptical of evolution. Reading their statement, a normal person might even suppose they are all applying for JOBS in scientific research departments!****
Are you serious? First of all most have to be tenured or they couldn’t get a job after signing this. Secondly, what do you mean “only SCIENTIFICALLY skeptical”. In order to be a skeptic (and especially to be willing to sign a statement like that when it could ruin your future job prospects) you have to have looked at the evidence and found it wanting.
****But in the end, you let slip out the real truth, which is that these are actually religiously motivated people who want to insert the UNSCIENTIFIC idea of INTELLIGENT DESIGN in public science classes.****
I must have missed that part....where is it?
****Yes, I understand your counter-argument: that science itself is dishonest and disingenuous, in not permitting research or publications in ID related subjects. But if you are going to run around calling all of science “liars,” should you not expect to receive similar words in response?****
This borders on the hysterical.....the only one running around calling somebody a liar is you. I would say that in any number of cases they have bought into a false paradigm based on their worldview. This does not make them liars....it makes them mistaken.
****You begin with the seven magic words: “let me help you solve that problem.” When you can solve science’s problems for them, they will pay some attention to you. But as long as you’re just throwing rocks at them, all you’ll get is rocks in return (crack open the rock, look for a fossil...)****
All the rocks have been thrown by you, my friend. I’m the one in this exchange who has tried to make reasoned, logical arguments. Go to your account page, start at the beginning and read. Then tell me who the rock-thrower is and who the “reasoned arguer” is.
You’ve worn me out with your tirades. If you would like to have a reasonable, give-and-take discussion on some area of the Creation/Evolution debate I’m in.....I’d love to do with you. If you continue to put words in my mouth and call me a liar for things that I never said, then I’m done.
May God richly bless you, BroJoe.