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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
"Is it ok to teach theories which deny final causes to students, in science classes?"

You say "final cause," I'd say, "First Cause."

First Cause is a philosophical argument which goes back to the ancient Greeks, and is also implied in the first verses of Genesis. I think it's a completely valid philosophical-theological argument.

But it's not science. There's no physical scientific evidence of a First Cause, no scientific theory of First Cause, not even a hypothesis relating to a First Cause that might be scientifically tested.

So First Cause is not science.

Now, if you send your children to private school, religious school or home school, then you can chose however you want them to be taught. It's nobody's business but yours & the school.

But PUBLIC schools are a different matter. There, ideally, we have to label things by their true names -- and not call every philosophical idea "science," or science a form of "religion," etc.

Finally, I notice your question takes a very odd form. Except in the realms of cosmology, ALL of science is taught without reference to a First Cause.

Do you have a problem with that?

1,324 posted on 01/10/2009 6:59:51 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
But PUBLIC schools are a different matter. There, ideally, we have to label things by their true names -- and not call every philosophical idea "science,"... Finally, I notice your question takes a very odd form. Except in the realms of cosmology, ALL of science is taught without reference to a First Cause.

My question is pretty simple, but for some reason you don't get it. I did not ask if it is ok to teach the philosophy of final causes in science class. I asked if it is ok, in your view, to teach a theory that denies final causes to students in public-school science classes.

1,325 posted on 01/10/2009 7:06:13 AM PST by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Darwinism!)
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To: BroJoeK; Ethan Clive Osgoode
From Britannica
"Teleology (from Greek telos, “end”; logos, “reason”), explanation by reference to some purpose or end; also described as final causality, in contrast with explanation by efficient causes only. Human conduct, insofar as it is rational, is generally explained with reference to ends pursued or alleged to be pursued; and human thought tends to explain the behaviour of other things in nature on this analogy, either as of themselves pursuing ends, or as designed to fulfill a purpose devised by a mind transcending nature.

The most celebrated account of teleology was that given by Aristotle when he declared that a full explanation of anything must consider not only the material, the formal, and the efficient causes, but also the final cause—the purpose for which the thing exists or was produced."
It may be a convenient, allegorical, and even poetic way to describe events, to say that an object intended something; "The shoe wanted to hit President Bush, to stomp him flat, to squish him ignominiously beneath it, but fortunately he ducked out of the way."

But that is only prettiness of phrasing. Inanimate objects can not plan or have intent. Aristotle's heavyweight philosophizing notwithstanding, the concept of "final cause" is a simple oxymoron.

1,326 posted on 01/10/2009 7:17:11 AM PST by NicknamedBob (If you translate Pi into base 43 notation, it will contain this statement.)
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