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To: TheBigIf
Just because a certain clause of the Constitution lacks a certain degree of precedent before the Court does not make the meaning of the words or the context of thm in the times they were used irrelevant

That clause also lacks another thing - a definition of the difference between natural born and citizen at birth. As Justice Gray wrote, "The fourteenth amendment of the constitution...contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two only-birth and naturalization. Citizenship by naturalization can only be acquired by naturalization under the authority and in the forms of law. But citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the constitution. Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization." That's two forms of citizenship, not three. Two. Citizen at birth and natural born citizen are one and the same, and if Obama and McCain meet the legal definition of citizen at birth - which they do - then they are eligible to be president.

61 posted on 12/11/2008 5:49:52 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

“That clause also lacks another thing - a definition of the difference between natural born and citizen at birth. As Justice Gray wrote, “The fourteenth amendment of the constitution...contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two only-birth and naturalization. Citizenship by naturalization can only be acquired by naturalization under the authority and in the forms of law. But citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the constitution. Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization.” That’s two forms of citizenship, not three. Two. Citizen at birth and natural born citizen are one and the same, and if Obama and McCain meet the legal definition of citizen at birth - which they do - then they are eligible to be president. “

This justice though was in no way making a ruling on the Constitutional eligibility fo the office of President.

You are mistaking apples for oranges.


67 posted on 12/11/2008 5:57:11 PM PST by TheBigIf
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To: Non-Sequitur
That's two forms of citizenship, not three. Two. Citizen at birth and natural born citizen are one and the same, and if Obama and McCain meet the legal definition of citizen at birth - which they do - then they are eligible to be president.

So, anyone born outside the country, but by law a citizen at birth, is what? Naturalized or natural born? The 14th amendment does not cover that situation, does it? It only covers "born or naturalized in the United States", not born outside the US but still a "Citizen at birth".

Logically those folks could be considered "naturalized at birth", because Congress only has the power to "Establish a Uniform Rule of Naturalization", not to define Constitutional terms, such as "Natural born citizen".

If that is true, then McCain was "naturalized at birth", and not a "natural born citizen". For Obama it depends on just where he was born. If born in Hawaii as claimed, he would be natural born (if one accepts that the 14th amendment tweaked the definition of that term a little). If not, then he is not a citizen at all, let alone a natural born one, unless he was later naturalized, in which case he'd still not be natural born.

So it all hinges on his place of birth. IMHO of course.

85 posted on 12/11/2008 6:23:24 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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